23 April 2021. Dr Reiner Fuellmich interviews many international lawyers and asks if there are special situations that need special attention in any one of the countries who they are going to talk to. There is a close cooperation between the lawyers in Germany, the Italians, the French, the Austrians on the one hand, and the Anglo-American countries in particular Canada and the United States. It is going on and will probably lead to many more class action complaints. It may even result in a special international Corona court. We will see where the current lawsuits take us and where the current evidence takes us.

International Legal Offensive Part 2

(2:35 – 28:14) Dr Renate Holzeisen from Italy. https://m.facebook.com/renate.holzeisen/and http://devoncommunityradio.com/A2021VERIFIEDRESOURCES/HOLZEISEN%20VS%20EUCOMMISSION%204_5963294337939802350.pdf

RH: There is a lot of pressure in Italy. The first country in the European Union where we are facing COVID-19 vaccine, which is mandatory and Italy will also be one of the first countries where we will have Covid-19 green certificate pass for travelling, also within the country from region to region and to enter bars and restaurants. It is the plan of the Italian government. We have a president of the Italian Government, the former Goldman Sachs manager and the European Central Bank chief officer so we have European commission executor on the front line of the Italian Government. We feel this pressure, we are in a very serious situation.

Reiner Fuellmich: Is it mandatory yet? Are there forced vaccinations yet?

RH: Yes we have the forced vaccinations for the healthcare workers and for the rest of the people of the population we presume that they want you to introduce it in maybe weeks or months, but for all the healthcare workers we have this mandatory vaccination since 1 April. We have thousands and thousands of healthcare workers who don’t want to be vaccinated and we laywers have to defend them. I, together with other lawyers, are defending, for example, nearly ten thousand of healthcare workers and there are other groups of lawyers engaged in this huge work for defending these people. We are in a very serious situation. It was introduced as mandatory vaccination just before Easter. If you think we are the country where we have the seat of the Vatican of the pope and we had just before Easter Sunday introduction of this mandatory COVID-19 vaccination. This is a fact which will be introduced In the history.

Reiner Fuellmich: What is surprising about this is that there is no full authorisation for these vaccines, for none of the three vaccines. There’s only a conditional use authorisation, just like the United States there’s only an emergency use authorisation. But how can that be? This conditional use exists only because there are no studies because nobody knows about the risks, nobody really knows about the efficacy, but no one knows about the risks, adverse reactions etc. There are lots and lots of reports coming in from all over the world that there are very serious side effects, adverse effects, including death. How can that be mandatory then?

RH: Yes, it is a fundamental breach of the fundamental principles of law and fundamental rights. It’s a breach of the Nuremberg Code. It’s obvious, but they go on until we aren’t able to stop them within the courts and we are all ready to take every legal step to stop them, and obviously now we are trying to inform every Italian member of the parliament because we are now in a situation that this mandatory vaccination was introduced by an order of the Italian Government signed by Mr Dragie on April 1^st, and within sixty days, by the end of May, the Italian Parliament has to covert (or not – we hope they won’t do that), but it is foreseen that this governmental order is being converted in an ordinary law and that has to be done by the Italian parliament. Now we are trying to inform every Italian member of the Parliament, for example, regarding the action for annulment which are pending on the European court.

As you correctly said before this so-called vaccines are experimental vaccines and we therefore presented on behalf of, in the name, and on behalf of Italian health workers already a month ago, actions for annulment for deliberations of the European Commission which authorised these vaccines in a conditional way for one year and so currently before the European court there are pending three legal proceedings regarding the first three vaccines introduced on the market by Pfizer BioNtech, by Moderna, and by AstraZeneca, and we are now going to file the fourth action for (inaudible) regarding Yansen of Johnson & Johnson. All this so-called COVID-19 vaccines offer the same problem They put the health of the person at a very high risk. We know we have already a lot of deaths in the European community and we also saw on the official data of (inaudible) that they had even applicated this on children already in Europe. Some are saying that also we have to have more information about that because at this time these vaccines aren’t authorised for children, for example.

There is something that happened which is very concerning, and now all the Italian health workers who don’t wat to be vaccinated will join this action for annulment and I know from the other European Union countries there will be a huge number of health workers joining this action for annulment in the quality of intravenous to support the Italian health workers and actors in this action.

On the other side we have the European Commission, which is supported by the pharmaceutical producers, so we will have thousands of health workers as actors on the one side and the European Commission pharmaceutical producers on the other side. The actions for annulment are based on high level scientific records of experts regarding the studies which were made regarding the very concerning risks persons are facing when they are treated with this so-called vaccines and it is based, and refers to the fundamental breach of European law.

We are in a situation where we are European citizens obviously have no longer protection of our health, that we are used as subjects of which the pharmaceutical industry is making the studies they didn’t do before.

Reiner Fuellmich: In other words, because the studies were not conducted we are now the guinea pigs?

RH: Yes.

Reiner Fuellmich: And not just of a new vaccine, but rather this is something that I get from a number of reports, including a video by Dr Hoetze of Houston Texas, it’s not even a vaccine but rather it’s an experiment, it’s genetic, it’s a therapeutic experiment.

RH: Yes, that’s right. In fact, we aren’t talking about real vaccines, but we are talking about genetic therapeutical products. With all the problems and open questions related to.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah. There’s no clear evidence as to the efficacy. We don’t know how effective it really is and there’s lots of evidence coming in more and more of it being really dangerous.  There was a report a couple of days ago, I got a report about how in the united States (I think) there are now studies that include children, and one of the children was an infant two years old. She had no prior conditions; she was in perfect shape and she’s dead now.

RH: Yes, but we have proved that even in the European territory, obviously children are already treated with these so-called vaccines, because otherwise there would be no, otherwise we can’t understand why this death is included in (inaudible) so this is a fact, this has to be, we have to understand more also about that.

Vivienne: What is the lockdown situation? Did you talk about this, do you have any restrictions at the moment?

RH: Yes we have. We can’t go around in the evening from 9 o’clock on and from ten o’clock on. As I already said before we probably will have to show the green covid certificate or something on our cellphone when we would like to pass from one region to another region within Italy so the lockdown is even getting more serious because our rights of travelling are more and more limited so we are very concerned about the future we are facing because we are seeing here an evolution like in Israel, and it’s’ very similar. We heard about the evolution in Israel two months ago and we see that we are now facing the same thing, We are in this very serious situation.

Vivienne: What about, we have all this testing in schools now starting?

RH: We have it also. It’s a very great problem. We as lawyers try to bring this problem at the courts, but we see that currently most of the judges aren’t willing to study the problem. They are executors of Governmental orders and that’s it. We see a very great lack of democracy. We see that the system of justice is not working. We have only single judges who are doing their work who are applying the constitutional law, who are aware of the fundamental rights and liberties and who are wiling to enter also into scientific considerations and read what experts say.

We have, first of all, the prosecutors who aren’t doing their job and it’s a grave problem. We lawyers we are trying, yes, we are facing a great effort in order to bring very important questions and cases at the courts, and we obviously hope that we will find judges willing to play their role they have in a democracy and in the state of rights.

Reiner Fuellmich: Is that because they are in line with the Government, or is it because they lack the relevant information?

RH: Both, I think the second maybe the most important argument in this consideration. I think most of them are lack of information so you have to inform them, but you have also to find the procedure where you can force them to pay immediate attention to the information, so we have the problem that the prosecutors they can make the choice of when they are willing to read what you are presenting them, they have no real terms within which they have to act. The civil proceedings in the main cases they all have too long a duration that’s our grave problem, and obviously we try to get interim measures and we do our best in order to react results, but we see that most of the judges are not willing to sustain individually with their responsibility also against the mainstream thinking. So we have to bring a lot of cases on the courts and obviously we lawyers working on the defence of the fundamental rights in this situation we have to be joined by other colleagues in order that we are more able in this very important work because we are few numbers as being respective the huge number of lawyers we have especially in Italy, we have thousands and thousands of lawyers, but we are maybe only one hundred, two hundreds of lawyers engaged in the defence of the fundamental rights of the citizens in this situation.

Reiner Fuellmich: It sounds as though a very basic problem, not just in Italy but this seems to be the same all over the world, we’ll see, but a basic problem is the lack of information and the lack of information exists because the mainstream media are more or less in control of the same people who are in control of the pharmaceutical and tech industry, so they have no interest in letting people know what is really going on. They have no interest in educating the people about the adverse side effects. That seems to be a major problem not just with the judges but also with the lawyers because if that wasn’t the case then I assume many more lawyers would take on these cases, in particular when you realise that many of these lawyers probably have children of their own who are endangered, and they don’t know it because they don’t have the information.

RH: Yes you’re right. Now on the question we all know PCR tests the abuse of the PCR test and the gene rapid test is the centre of the problem. When we started to talk about it and bring it on the courts already in Autumn of last year the attention was zero paid on this very important question and problem. But now with the vaccination we see that also in Italy certain mainstream media are now interested in reporting on it. Because we have now the situation obviously intelligent people is aware of the fact that in the first step the vaccination Is mandatory only for the health workers, but obviously it will become mandatory for the rest of the population, so even journalists are concerned now regarding this vaccination because they hear what happens. We had a lot of deaths especially in Italy.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes I heard about that particularly in the Army, there is a lot of suspicion there because of adverse effects, and because we’re on a tight schedule we’ll have to switch to Great Britain. Is that okay?

RH: Okay. Thank you very much.

Dr Reiner Fuellmich: For our German viewers there will be German subtitles, we won’t be translating while we are conducting our interviews, but there will be German subtitles. There will be one interview in German, rather. I will translate that.

(28:19 – 47:51) Now, Francis Hoar. Francis, I don’t think we’ve ever spoken before. I know we’ve spoken about you. Are you with us?

Francis Hoar: I’m with you.

Dr Reiner Fuellmich: Perfect, how are you doing?

FH: Very well thank you. I had a slight problem with the timing I had a bit of confusion, but fortunately somebody called me just now so it’s all fine.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay great. So, what’s it like in Great Britain? Is it similar to what we just heard from our colleague from Italy?

FH: It’s really difficult to compare because you can only read about what’s happening elsewhere so it’s best to give my impression. We’re on these what are called steps regulations, and by October last year the Government for the first time, in what I thought was a very concerning development, adopted this stage one stage two stage three lockdown, which then they called something different, but now they’re calling it the steps regulation, and the whole idea of that is you’re stepping out of lockdown. I’ve always thought that that was a particularly pernicious institution – the stages of lockdown because it was done to indicate this was a normal way of living and a normal way of states regulating their citizens. So we saw it in South Africa, in Australia, in New Zealand and so on, and obviously it’s utterly unprecedented, but it normalises the idea that you can regulate with whom you can meet in your own house, whether you can go outside, and so on and all that kind of stuff and suggests its fine because you can have a lower level of lockdown when there’s certain levels of risk, but however we’re in that situation and the media is little better, if no worse than in Italy and in most other places.

The judiciary is worse than in most of Europe certainly, must worse than in the United States where we’ve seen quite a lot of good judgements. I’m thinking of whether it was Wyoming or what, there was an excellent supreme court, one of the Supreme courts in the United States and there was an excellent judgement in Weimar recently of course, January and the mask one recently, but the judicial decisions in my cases and in other cases that we’ve had in England and Wales, and to a lesser extent in Scotland, because fewer cases have been brought to the jurisdiction in Scotland have been very bad indeed. I’m just looking at the major case that I did with Simon Dolan as the claimant, which challenged the whole initial lockdown and the lawfulness of it, I’m just looking at the judgement now and the key elements of that were:

1. that the judiciary dismissed with very poor reasoning the idea that the act of parliament, so we have a system called secondary legislation so we have, as you know, acts of parliament which are unimpeachable by the courts because we don’t have a written unified constitution, but those acts of parliament can give ministers the power to introduce legislation and that’s what they did through the lockdown. The act of parliament that’s being used in England and Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s called the public health control of disease act 1984 that was amended in 2008 to introduce some changes and regulations that could be introduced that came from the international health regulations (IHR) 2005.

Now, as you may know the international health regulations 2005 gave a number of different recommendations to national governments, none of which were anything close to envisioning lockdowns. There was suggestion about international travel being regulated, perhaps closure of certain events and so on, and I think viewers will be aware that the pandemic planning in different countries has been never envisaged before 2020 anything of the sort, the sort of behaviour that Governments and the sort of legislation that have been introduced in 2020 and that goes right as far as the WHO pandemic plan in 2019, which was very very far away from even considering anything like this, so I mentioned that because one of the things the court took into account was that in 2008 the intention of parliament was to introduce the IHR, the International Health Regulations, but in fact the International Health Regulations say nothing, envisage nothing like this. I won’t go into the details as I don’t have time, but parts of the act of parliament that gave ministers the power to regulate was specifically dealing with those suspected people who may be infectious and it’s something the court completely ignored in their judgement. The key criterion for imposing these regulations was that they could be imposed on those who may be infected and that’s a key point that Lord Sumption who viewers may recognise the name, he’s been very vocal and extremely eloquent in speaking out against this as a supreme court judge, he has made the observation that the court of appeal were wrong and not only were they wrong, but judgement was woefully thin in terms of its reasoning. Very concerning me too the judgement, I think we’ll all be aware in Europe and to a certain extend in the common law world as well of the proportionality test which is prominent in all jurisdictions that have connections to the European Convention of Human Rights but is also applied whether it’s called that or not throughout the common law world.

Reading the Dolan judgement, it’s unrecognisable to anyone who considers proportionality because essentially the court says that because the Government is acting on the basis of evidence that it has considered it may impose regulations, even regulations that were never envisaged before 2020 and are the most extreme deprivations of freedoms that we’ve ever encountered in England and Wales, including the protectants under Cromwell and even to some extent the middle ages we’ve never had a period where everyone in England was told that they had to stay in their houses and so on, and this will be the same in most other countries in the world, so the idea that that was, since I heard Renate talking about the unwillingness of courts to consider evidence, the court of appeal refuse to even give permission to review the proportionality of the original lockdown regulations. It gave no regard whatsoever to the evidence, and you might think the proportionality tests in ways that justify the type of legislation that we’ve had, you must surely be able to satisfy that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and more so where the fundamental rights are so important and the economic and healthcare devastation of policy being implemented, in this case the lockdowns and medium types of lockdown regulations falling short of lockdowns that the balancing exercise must be struck. Reading that judgement it’s pretty extraordinary and an extremely poor set of reasoning from very senior judges in England and Wales that ignore that, and in fact interestingly the three courses in the Supreme court which are binding on the court of appeal, the Supreme Court is the court that brings together the United Kingdom so the jurisdictions of Northern Ireland, Scotland and England and Wales all feed into the Supreme Court, it’s not quite a constitutional court and it can’t strike down acts of parliament, it can strike down secondary legislation like this though.

Reiner Fuellmich: So it includes Gibraltar doesn’t it?

RH: Yeah, it does but in a slightly different way, so there’s the privy council which is effectively the same judges, and they deal with appeals from the Caribbean. Some independent countries with the Queen as the head of state and some overseas territories such as Gibraltar, St Helena, Falkland Islands and so on, yes, they are effectively the same judges.

Reiner Fuellmich: Lord Sumption was very outspoken. Has he toned down his rhetoric lately, or?

RH: No he hasn’t, he wrote another excellent article in the Daily Telegraph or possibly the Sunday Telegraph this weekend, no he hasn’t toned down his rhetoric or his analysis, nor has he changed it. He’s been consistently speaking against lockdowns in a way that most, again I go back to the point we’ll all recognise that essentially what we’re doing is talking about the conception of law proportionality and rationality frankly that anyone would have believed or claimed to have believed before 2020 when they became terrified by a virus with an IFR of maybe 0.25 percent and an average death of eighty-two, the statistics that we are all too familiar with.

Reiner Fuellmich: The thing is we’re hearing from our colleagues in Canada in particular, because they’re pretty experienced in the meantime that the balancing the proportionality in effect doesn’t play a role anymore. I mean, they pretend they’re weighing the pros and cons of all these approaches but they’re not really because everything is being overridden by what they now call the precautionary principle and I think that’s what it sounds like is happening in England as well.

RH: Again, going back to the Dolan judgement in England that’s very much what happened. One of the elements of the lockdown that we were challenging was the decision by the Government to elevate five tests which all related to the virus, above any other considerations, and the Government expressly said on a number of occasions that it would only reduce the restrictions if each or some of those five tests were met, none of which related to economic activity, none of it was related to health, other than the virus, even though it was pretty obvious to anyone with a rational mind that the virus was least of our concerns when it came to the economic and social catastrophe that was being caused by the lockdowns, so they didn’t even allow for a weighing process a balanced process and the court of appeal extraordinarily said that was an acceptable because the Government can decide what factors it takes into account, completely ignoring again all the precedent that says of course when it’s taking away fundamental rights it has to balance the advantages against the disadvantages and has to consider evidence, and they also used some cases such as smoking cases and smoking advertising cases, which involved extremely niche areas of public policy where the courts are understandably willing to intervene where some of the cases referred to by the Government involved fisheries, for example, so the scientific advisory on fisheries, in those cases obviously the courts have said that they will not intervene unless there’s a very clearly irrational statement by a scientist or whatever obviously, but in this case we’re talking about locking people in their houses, or not quite, but regulating who they can meet, closing down businesses and so on. It’s totally unprecedented and it’s a most extraordinary and appalling judgement I’ve read in practically all my years of practicing law, unfortunately and unfortunately that’s the case I was in, but that’s where we are in England and Wales, Scotland and pretty much Scotland and Northern Ireland, which haven’t even had the kind of challenges that we’ve had.

Reiner Fuellmich: Are there lawyers who are trying to attack at the very foundation of what’s going on, meaning are people attack the reliability of the PCR tests because without the PCR tests there wouldn’t be any lockdowns?

RH: Very interesting and what we’ve been trying to look at is finding a set of circumstances with which to challenge the PCR test. In Portugal they had a Habeas Corpus case effectively that the detention of the people in hotel quarantine beyond a certain point was unlawful because the basis on which they were doing it was that they were infected, and they were basing that on a PCR test, so they had the jurisdiction to do that. It is possible to find similar circumstances in England because there are circumstances where hotel quarantine can continue beyond a certain point, but it’s difficult and courts have found that the self-isolation in your own house is not detention. In fact, in a case that I’m dealing with at the moment dealing with self-isolation requirements for travellers from non-red list countries, so where we’re not imposing hotel self-quarantine there’s an imposition of ten days at home and there’s a case now before the court of appeal where I’m representing somebody who was subject to that last year and it’s taken a very long time to get to the high court and now it’s in the Court of Appeal or waiting for a Court of Appeal to hear if it decides it. In that case the judge found that it wasn’t detention when you were required to be in your own house, even though the European convention case will suggest that that is a form of house arrest.

Reiner Fuellmich: So I would suggest…

RH: …think about finding the, but unless you have detention, you’re not going to be able to challenge the PCR test because you challenge detention on the basis that you are being detained because of the risk that you are infected or infectious, and as the result…

Reiner Fuellmich: …that’s funny because the PCR test thing is the only way, the Drosden PCR test, is the only way that any of these Governments decide whether or not there are too many infections…

RH: …exactly…

Reiner Fuellmich: …so if it turns out, and we know this is the case because we’ve spoken to all of these experts, if it turns out that the Drosden PCR test cannot tell you anything about infections, then the whole house of cards must collapse.

RH: But it’s as Renate said it’s finding a way of challenging and getting the, forcing the courts to analyse it, so judicial review which is the form of challenging public laws so secondary legislation and the act of Government, it’s very difficult to challenge the use of the PCR test in judicial review because the standard is very high, it’s very difficult for a claimant to succeed in judicial reviews because Governments get a lot of latitude, but if you’re talking about detention that requires evidence that somebody is infectious so then you can challenge the PCR test, which is why the Portuguese claim worked as a way of doing that.

Reiner Fuellmich: Well, the Austrian court didn’t need detention, the Austrian court just asked for the foundation and found this is unconstitutional because there’s no factual basis for any of these measures. The other question of course is does the Government take its courts decisions seriously? And they don’t in Austria – not yet, and here in Germany the same kinds of efforts can be seen, it is so that the Government tries everything it can to put everyone under a lot of pressure, including the judges of course who are not in line, and I’m afraid what they are trying to do right now they’re trying to impose the British legal thinking as you explained it right now onto our German system, which is completely different – at least as far as the procedural law is concerned. Subset laws in this case are similar, but Francis I don’t want to cut you off but we’re under a tight schedule…

FH: …yeah I know…

Vivienne: Do you also have the testing problems in the schools like for instance right now?

FH: Yeah we do. We have testing in schools. We have masks in school, in fact my latest case issued today is a challenge to a school imposing a mask policy and the idea of that is for it to be a test case and we’re examining the efficacy of masks and the harm they cause to children and we’re asking the court to injunct that school trust and prevent them from imposing this mask policy on schools, but they also impose testing, so there is also testing in schools – it’s not compulsory but it’s obviously there is a lot of coercion on children who don’t do it, and parents.

Vivienne: Are you aware that we have expert opinions already on the masks? Are you aware of this?

RH: Yeah.

Reiner Fuellmich: You are aware of the German decision the very recent German decision…

RH:…Weimar, we arere relying on the Weimar decision yes we were relying on that, absolutely. In fact, we need an official translation (inaudible) for another time, but we have a reasonably good translation of it so far and we’ll get the full official one.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay well very good. Well thank you for explaining what’s going on in Great Britain. It’s eye opening to a degree because on the one hand it shows that this is really an agenda that is being pushed in lockstep everywhere, but there are slight differences and those differences are important because now I understand what they’re trying to do here with the judiciary, they’re trying to put the judiciary under the same kinds of legal constraints that you have there without them existing here in this country. It’s very interesting to see this. It kind of uncovers their tracks. Okay, well thank you very much Francis. We’ll be in touch.

FH: Pleasure. Thank you.

(47:51 – 1:04:09)  Reiner Fuellmich: Okay now Dominic Desjarlais from Canada, can you hear us?

Dominic Desjarlais: Yes. Hi Reiner. Hi everybody. Nice to be here. It’s a pleasure to be part of this committee of lawyers at an international level. Thank you, Reiner for inviting me to participate. Well, I work in Quebec Montreal Quebec, so as you know Canada has some provinces and each of the provinces deal with the situation in their own way, on their own public health act. Whatever they call it in each province. The federal Government decided not to invoke the emergency act, so they’ve let each province deal with their own problem, so I’m dealing with the Quebec Government measures, which are pretty much the same as in Ontario. https://standupcanada.solutions/canadian-lawsuits

Right now, the situation is the following, we have social contact jurisdiction that we cannot go to see friends or family in your house, a bit like Francis was explaining, we have a curfew depending on the region and the provinces either from eight o’clock at night till five or nine thirty at night until five. We also have mandatory masks in all office space for the workers in office space, mandatory masks in schools for children six years old and up all day. There’s also a mandatory mask if you go and do another activity with somebody who’s not from your household, let’s say you go for some kind of another activity you need to wear the mask, so it’s pretty extreme the measures we have in Quebec.

I have been working since last, also as Renate has talked about we also have vaccination for the health workers, it’s not necessarily directly mandatory because if the worker refuses to be vaccinated they have to take three PCR tests a week, okay, and if they refuse to take the three PCR tests a week they need to see if they can be relocated in some other functions or tasks, you know without contact with the public, and if that’s not possible they have to go home without pay. So in a certain way it’s not mandatory but it’s mandatory because it’s coercion, so we are also facing this since a couple of weeks ago that the Governments imposed on some of the health workers this way to proceed and the way they did it is that most of the health workers in Quebec are on collective bargaining agreements, so basically it’s the Government running the hospitals and the healthcare institution, so they adopted the ministerial order modifying the collective bargaining agreements to impose that process to the health workers, so it makes things a bit complicated because then the health workers have to go through the union, and from what I’ve heard some of the unions they don’t want the hack because you know – I’m not going to say it’s pre-planned, but the information we have is that most of the unions we have heard of from health workers is they don’t want to go ahead with attacking the employer on this issue, but it has been going on for two weeks so it remains to be seen how it will unfold. So that’s the kind of measures we have in Quebec.

So, I’ve been working as a laywer, an independent lawyer, I’ve been doing civil and commercial litigation and I’ve been a lawyer for twenty-two years and in my twenty-two years I’ve prepared (inaudible) to deal with this situation because I’m one of the few lawyers in Quebec, I heard Renate talking about the fact that there’s approximately one hundred lawyers in Italy working on this. When I’m in Quebec I can count the lawyers doing what I’m doing on my left hand so that’s one of the problems we have, we’re very few lawyers working on cases like this and my client was a non-profit organisation, has been put in place to protect the rights and liberties of the people so that’s the context in which I’m working right now, so I filed two legal reports so far. I filed a recourse an habeas corpus application to quash the curfew we have in Quebec. I filed that in January and it was answered by the Government saying they presented a motion to dismiss saying it was not habeas corpus because curfew could not be considered as detention, a bit like what you were talking about earlier Francis here, you know…

Reiner Fuellmich: …but that’s weird, isn’t it?

DD: Yes, so the habeas corpus principal in Canada is pretty wide, it’s to assert liberty interest and I was pretty confident that it would stand as an habeas corpus so the debate was not on the merits but on the fact of whether there was a habeas corpus application that could be brought forward for the curfew or just a judicial review application to review the act of the Government, and unfortunately after (inaudible) arguments the judge ruled in favour of the Governments saying that my application did not qualify as an habeas corpus because curfew could not be considered as detention on the Canadian law. I was transferring to a judicial review application, which is a longer process, and as Francis explained it gives a lot of liberty to the Government to justify the measures, whereas an habeas corpus as soon as you’ve proven an infringement of your liberty interest the burden is transferred on the Government to justify it, that’s why I took the habeas corpus route. Unfortunately, the supra court judge did not agree and for strategic reasons I decided not to appeal because I wanted to move forward my judicial review application as quickly as possible because the appeal process would take a long time.

Also, I filed a month and a half ago a lawsuit attacking the root of the problem, so the root of the problem being whether or not there are still circumstances justifying maintaining an health emergency situation under the public health act here in Quebec where you need to have a grave and imminent and serious threat for the health of the population so I’m attacking that on the basis of all the studies and the data that has been accumulated over the last year and the studies that came out, and recently in January they said that it considered COVID-19 as a mild flu so with .14 percent of fatality rate so I’m attacking that, and at the core of my lawsuit is the PCR test. Just from the beginning I saw that the PCR test was a big problem because as I discussed with Reiner on other occasions there’s proof right now in the Portuguese decision relates it and the recent Weimar and Austrian decision relates it with the cycle amplification that they run the test by ninety-seven percent of the scientific evidence, ninety-seven percent of the results are false positives. So I’m attacking that at the root and I have to express working very hard on finalising a report, actually they’re from Great Britain Francis, so one of them is Clare Craig she’s a pathologist and the other one is Tanya Klymenko she has a phD in molecular biology, they are working very hard to, and Clare was one of the twenty two researchers who debunked the Corman-Drosden report last year with Michael Yeadon and all other experts, so she’s working on my case.

I have experts from France, from Switzerland I have an epidemiologist, I have an infectious disease expert, I have a public policy health expert who used to work for the WHO, and also I’m working, also the lawsuit I filed attacks the root of the problem so the emergency, whether or not there’s an emergency health situation that’s justified, it attacks the PCR test and we also attack the fact that the Government is renewing, without going in front of the legislator, the health emergency every ten days only by decree without the debate, so there’s no debate by the legislator on the issues. The Government just renews the public health emergency every ten days and imposes the measures with a very close group of eighteen people, and they don’t necessarily give us all the scientific or so-called scientific evidence that they base their decisions on.

So, the Prime Minister and the public health act officer admitted on many occasions that the measures they are imposing there is no science behind it, no product or justified science behind it, okay in press conferences, so that’s pretty amazing. However, we’re stuck with the same kind of problem, so also my case attacks the constitutionality of the measures and the proportionality test that you talked about Francis, we have the same on the Royal Charter one of the measures are proportional to the end that they want to prevent, but the problem that we have in Quebec in Canada the decisions I’ve read so far the judges on interim injunction hearings they apply the precautionary principal to the extreme.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah.

DD: I’m going to give you the following example, there’s a case that was filed in Quebec an interim injunction for the masking of children. So it proceeded on the basis of the file of an interim basis on the emergency hearing and the judge acknowledged that there were some harm caused by the mask and that it was not really useful, but on the other hand the Government did not present any scientific evidence and he said well first of all there’s a presumption that the measures adopted in the publics interests so the other party has to show that the suspension of the measure would be in the public’s interest, so the burden is on the plaintiff plus he said I have the scientific evidence from the plaintiff but on the other hand we have a virus and there’s a risk caused by the virus and as slight as the risk can be we cannot afford it, so that’s an application of the precautionary principal to the extreme.

Reiner Fuellmich: It’s standing it on its head.

DD: Exactly, so that’s why I said we’re in some kind of legal maze, okay where we enter the maze the door was shut after we entered the maze, but we don’t see the exit door, y’know so that’s the analogy I make, so we’re in kind of a situation where we have to scratch our heads as lawyers, try to find a way to bring the issues as effectively as possible before the court, and that’s why I’m working very hard with my experts because when I go to court on some motions or some interim injunction motions I want to be able to show at least some expert evidence to the court, but to a complete extent do I give the court the best picture possible, not just claims of scientific evidence because some lawyers in Canada, from what I read, they ran to court quickly without scientific evidence and they were kicked out pretty quick, so we need to be careful as lawyers to make sure that we present the best case possible and make sure that we don’t create bad precedents, so that’s why I’m working very hard with my experts, but as I said I’m one of the only lawyers doing what I’m doing in Quebec, so I cannot end all the cases.

I also have the mandate to bring in an application to cancel the mask mandates for school children and also for adults, so I’m working on many fronts on many issues, but it’s complicated.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes we have the advantage now that we’re all connected of being able to exchange these expert opinions and put the experts in touch with everyone else …

DD:…that’s what I was going to say, yes that’s what I was going to say, Reiner. Being part of this group I took a lot of notes from Renate said and from what Francis said. I think we have a mutual interest to share information, to share legal, just to help each other, for example if somebody is considering doing something in this country and we have similar legal principals, even if we don’t have similar legal principals, the science is the same…

Reiner Feullmich:…yeah…

DD: …the logic is the same, so we have an advantage to connect to each other and I think you very much, Reiner for putting together this group because that’s the way we’re gonna get out of this.

Reiner Fuellmich: Exactly.

DD: Share information, share strategies, and share ideas. I think we’re gonna find a common thread on what to attack, how to attack it and do, as Francis said, find the best case possible for a certain issue because your case is as good as your facts, and if you have bad facts you’re gonna have a bad case you’re gonna have a bad result, and even with good facts and a good case you can have a bad result – as we’ve seen.

Reiner Fuellmich: You’re right we have to be careful not to create bad precedents, so we have to be careful to choose our cases at the court of law…

DD:…also there’s lawsuits that were filed in Canada, two major lawsuits were filed in Canada, I know there’s one on masks that was filed a couple of days ago. I’m in touch with lawyers in Canada, the US, of course with you Reiner, also with lawyers in France, so I’m glad to be in touch with lawyer in Italy and from England and other countries, so let’s all work together. It’s complicated, it’s doable, but we have to put all our efforts together and I salute all the lawyers who are working on COVID-19 cases right now, because it’s a huge task and when we got into law school, we never imagined that one day we would be in such a situation and such a case, so I salute you all for all the work that you’re doing.

Reiner Fuellmich: And vice versa, Dominic. Well thank you very much, Dominic. This is interesting and we will continue to cooperate because you’re absolutely right, it’s the only way to go. We have to have this international legal cooperation and that will get us over the last hill that we need to…

DD:…and if I can, Reiner, once we find some common thread that’s how we can bring it to the international level, because when we have decisions in each of our countries we’re gonna see where the courts are willing to go and then we can find the flaws in what the other side in doing and then take that and bring it to the international level.

Reiner Fuellmich: We will. Thank you, Dominic.

DD: Thank you, Reiner.

Vivienne: Thank you so much.

1.04.13 -1:19:18 Reiner Fuellmich: Now we have Ana Garner. Are you with us, Ana?

Ana Garner: Hello, can you hear me?

Reiner Fuellmich: Great, yeah. You’re in New Mexico, I know that many people know you because of a couple of videos with interviews with you that made quite an impression. So how’s the situation in New Mexico, as opposed to other states?

AG: Well it’s very interesting to hear people from other countries talking about what’s happening in their countries because it’s very similar here. We have fifty states as you know and each state has its own Governor and so New Mexico has an especially tyrannical Governor, and other states are not quite as bad as we are. However, when I hear the story from Renate from Italy, and I hear about England the UK I’m just shocked – this is truly just unprecedented and I have forty years of legal experience and I have never seen anything like this. I’ve lived a nice long life. I thought I was gonna retire then COVID happened, but I’m in the fight. I’m in the fight as long as it takes and as hard as it takes. I’m so grateful to be on a panel, a group of such esteemed attorneys who are fighting this and taking it because we’re all you know in some ways we’re sort of shooting in the dark. We’re against unprecedented odds in some ways, and yet I do feel that we will be victorious and in part by getting the education out and convincing people about the truth of the matter, so I totally agree with you all. The PCR test, to me, is the card that is holding up the house of cards and when we extract that PCR test and show it for the falsity that it is, the rest of it has to collapse.

The first lawsuit that we filed in New Mexico, Jonathan Deener and I, along with Thomas Rens from Ohio, the first case we had was challenging the state of public health emergency and, of course, it was a very long complaint it was a hundred and twenty-six pages and it has three hundred and twenty-five scientific footnotes because we wanted to present our best scientific evidence that we  could to the court because we anticipated motions to dismiss, which of course we got a motion to dismiss and the judge has been sitting on it now for some time. So, we don’t have a decision, we don’t know what the problem is why the judge is not making a decision. Typically, the outcome would be, in a federal court anyway, which is where we are, typically rather than dismissing the case outright, if they felt we had some problems such as lack of standing or you know failure to state the cause of action, they would allow us to amend. So, I don’t believe we would be completely dismissed, but we may need to amend our complaint, we might need to find other plaintiffs, there might be some variables that we could control that we could add in to strengthen our case.

In the meantime, of course, we’ve all been on (I would say) an advanced PhD doctorate degree in fighting for our rights and every month I learn something new. The same kind of conditional approval of the so-called vaccine that you have in Europe we have the emergency use authorisation in the United States and that emergency use authorisation, as it turns out, applies to mask wearing for the prevention of viral transmission, it applies to PCR testing, and it applies to the “vaccine”.

We recently filed another case where we challenged a mandatory vaccine that was the county manager of a town in the south of New Mexico. The county manager made it a requirement for continuation of their employment, that the first responders all had to be vaccinated. We had many first responders capitulate before we could even file the suit on their behalf, and we had one brave lone stand out who we have as a plaintiff who refused to take it regardless of the coercion that was happening in his employment. Subsequently they created such a hostile work environment that he had to leave, we were concerned that our case was going to completely disappear at that point, but we got another plaintiff and our original plaintiff agreed to continue so that we can continue with this and we did alert the court to the fact that a hostile environment was created that made it unbearable for him to stay, so we amended the complaint and we’ll be filing it in the next couple of days, we have to get leave of the court to do this, but we have added an internationally customary norm type claim. We have found out that international law is considered by our federal courts, it has been adopted as common law by the US supreme court, so we can use and will benefit from your victories that you are having in Europe and other places. I want you to know we are having a united front here and we do need to share information.

Dominic, I know you have the similar case that I do, you are challenging the very basis of what is going on here, that there is no emergency. This is ridiculous. Where’s the public health emergency? I don’t even know a single person in my entire family cycle, anybody, who’s died. I know a couple of people who got a little sick about a year ago, including me, and got over it. We would expect to see thousands of dead people in the streets the way they talk about this. We don’t. It’s fake and they’re scaring the living daylights out of everybody, including the judges. We have to advance our positions. It helps to be in contact with people from other countries and other states. We have various laws in other states and various levels of the lockdown or the restrictions that are happening, so it helps us also to communicate with other attorneys in the United States, but you know we have a population of 2.1 million in New Mexico and there are only a small handful of us attorneys here who are fighting it, and I asked the other attorneys why can’t you understand this hoax, why aren’t you able to fight it, well  because we have the type of clients who would fire us, and they’re afraid of losing their big clientele. I’m lucky. I’ m a solo practitioner who works out of her home, I don’t even need the money. Fortunately, because I’m not getting any, you know we’ve only recently been able to get donations that are actually helping with a lot of cost and now can even help with attorneys fees and paralegals, and skilled people that we can have on our team, so we’re very blessed to have even that kind of support coming, and it’s coming really from all over the world because people are getting wise to this false narrative that’s happening, so we are now, as a result of the Weimar court decision, and Reiner thanks for alerting us to that, as a result of that now our next project and what we’re working on right now is looking to file an injunction against the mask wearing for children. I have a couple of very excellent potential plaintiffs and they are the parents of athletes and they happen to be down south in New Mexico, it’s already hot there, they’re having summer already, and when the children have to wear a mask and run around outside, either or track or whatever, they are experiencing severe consequences. We have seen children pass out. We have seen children bend over doubled over because they cannot get their breath, so we are now putting this together and I want to be able to send it all of you for help and input…

Reiner Fuellmich: …of course…

AG:…because we need that input. On the amended complaint that we’re filing right now against the county manager, I would like to send that, I’m almost finished I would l like to send that one out now and have you take a look at that as well. We added a lot of other claims, turns out we have a law I wasn’t even aware of because I’m researching a whole new area, I was doing personal injury, medical malpractice, a little FDA litigation, and then recently foreclosure law to help people against the banks who were about to lose their homes. So, this is a new area of law for me, but I feel very qualified because I have a science background. I was pre-med and I went a year toward my masters in genetics and I studied genetics, and then I decided I was tired of going to school forever and thought well three years I’m out of school, law school, so that’s why I changed my course, but it turns out that was the right decision because now I am ready for the fight.

Reiner Fuellmich: And you know exactly what you’re talking about? They cannot fool you as far as the facts of these cases are concerned, the medical facts that is?

AG: Exactly.

RF: That’s great. Do you still represent the client who, I think he works in a…

AG:…the detention centre?…

Reiner Fuellmich:..yeah the detention centre. Is he still there?

AG: No, he had to leave because of the hostile work conditions, but we did also get another plaintiff who had been fired for refusing the so-called vaccine, so we do have two plaintiffs of detention officers, so we are proceeding with that we’re just not filing for an injunctive relief to stop the coercion or hostile work environment because now they’re gone so that part is mute, but what is not mute is that we have a whistle-blower action, we have the violation of customary international norms, human rights violations, we’ve added a few more counts that I think are really good so I look forward to the comments that you guys will help us with.

Reine Fuellmich: Oh yeah, great.

Vivienne: I have a question. What do you think the judges, what kind of a state of mind are they in, do you think they’re under political pressure or are they willing to look at the cases like objectively in case they would be presented with a lot of genome facts?

AG: That’s a very good question and I do think they are under some sort of pressure, but our federal judges are not elected and they less loyalty, shall we say or obligation, to our Governor. The Governor appoints our Supreme Court judges, but she has no say in who is sitting on the federal court, that’s done by the president, and we have federal judges who have been appointed by various presidents, so we have some very liberal ones, some conservative ones. We happen to have drawn a conservative one for one of our case and a more liberal one for this most recent case, but what has just come out interestingly is a deposition of our public health director who is an MD a medical doctor and she admitted that they had no scientific basis to support the use of the masks or even the social distancing or any of that, and so that has been making its rounds in America in New Mexico anyway that this is completely unscientific, not a single shred of scientific evidence. They’re coming out and admitting this, so I think that we’re getting closer and the judges are starting to see that, they said “oh I’ve had this kind of case in front of me four times and not once did the defendants present any scientific evidence, but the plaintiffs came here in with plenty of scientific evidence, so we’re starting to hear a little bit of what I would consider optimistic rumblings by the judges.

Reiner Fuellmich: Excellent.

Vivienne: And do you think a lot of them have fallen victim to believing into the narrative, is that also an issue that’s perhaps hindering them from looking at the, you know really digging into the legal case or are they getting more and more aware of what is going on?

AG: The longer it goes on I think the more awareness is coming out because you know even supreme court justice Gorsuch said the constitution can take a small break but you can’t shut it down forever, I’m paraphrasing, but the longer it goes on the less likely it looks like it’s a public health emergency, so I think that time is on our side at this point, I wish I had known some of this a year ago and filed a year ago, but I was watching the cases that were happening and everybody was losing in New Mexico. I was going “no you can’t concede that there’s a rational basis test to be applied, you have to say strict scrutiny, you have to have a higher level of scrutiny because this is so wrong in infringing on fundamental human rights, the right to breathe for God sake. I don’t understand…

RF:..we have a number of great experts who we’re going to put in touch with you, whatever you need you’ll get it because we have a huge pool of experts who are extremely helpful and are eager to help because they cannot bear this. It makes their lives almost impossible to live because it’s so unscientific.

JG: Right. Thank you, Reiner.

Vivienne: They’re coming also from all directions you know it’s some people who are still behind the scenes because they have their work for pharmaceutical industry or they like do even working in a law firms and just cannot come out at this point, but they’re all willing to help so I think it’s really a network…

RF:…it’s getting better all the time.

JG: Yes, it is.

RF: Okay

JG: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

RF: Well thank you for being here. We’re in touch anyway, I’m not going to talk about this but there are other things going on in the background which we really enjoy working with and this may turn into a huge thing. We’ll see. Okay, Ana take it easy, we’ll talk later.

JG: Thank you.

RF: Yes bye bye.

(1:19:21 – 1:49:53) – Reiner Fuellmich: Okay Leslie, can you hear us?

Leslie Manookian I can hear you. Can you hear me okay?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, we can speak German of course, but as everybody knows she speaks perfect German. See what I mean. You can read German decisions too.

LM: Yeah.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay…

LM: …very slowly…

Reiner Fuellmich: …yeah. Now you’re not an attorney, but you know a lot about the law. What is your background?

LM: I’m the president of Health Freedom Defence Fund and Health Freedom Defence Fund is a non-profit that I founded last year, but I’d really like to go back and explain a little bit more of my background if it’s okay?

Reiner Fuellmich: Sure.

LM: I started out actually as an MBA. I got my MBA from the University of Chicago and I worked in finance for many years living in London and I first started out working for Goldman Sachs and then I ended up going and working for one of my clients, which is Alliance Capital and running their European growth portfolio management and research businesses for a period of years, until I retired, and I retired because I was sick and getting sicker, and I didn’t know at the time that it was because of vaccine injury actually. But I was also really disillusioned with what I was doing because I love to tell this story because it’s just a jaw dropping story, but my job at Alliance was to interview the CEO’s of multi-national corporations and decide which of the European companies we should put into our portfolios, and I used to see the y’know CEO of these companies all the time because we were some of the biggest shareholders in the world, and so one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world at the time came into our offices and they had a drug that was in phase three trials, and their drug was in the phase three trials it was killing some people, and so the whole management team came in and they said listen, yes in very rare instances people have died in the clinical trials, but y’know we think it’s very very rare it’s not a big issue, and then he said “the bad news is the FDA is going to make us put a black box warning on the packaging. The good news is that we still think we’ll be able to do $7 billion in peak sales”. And I thought to myself, wow. Okay so they know people are going to die from this drug, but they’re okay with it because they’re still gonna do $7 billion dollars in peak sales. And I just, for me it was just a complete wake up call. It completely changed my life because I just felt, the veil was lifted right and I could see that these pharmaceutical companies were more concerned about their corporate profits than they were about human life and it really shifted something in me, so I ended up quitting and simultaneous I was sick, so I had gone to see a homeopath and homeopathy really started healing me and changing my life.

Then I enrolled in homeopathy college and I learned about the whole vaccine issue, but I had no idea that’s what had happened to me, and I ended up making a documentary film called The Greater Good, which you can see at greatermoviegood.org and that really launched me into the whole health freedom space, and so fast forward y’know I’ve been researching vaccines and FDA and laws and all these things for a very very long time almost twenty years now and you get us to January of 2020 and I could see, as soon as this whole thing was announced, how it was going to unfold. That was the impetus for me to actually found Health Freedom Defence Fund was that I was gravely concerned about where this was all going, and you could tell because I could walk you through the legislation that’s been passed in the United States starting with the Bidol Act in 1980 I believe it was, this is an act that allows the federal employees to do research funded by federal tax dollars to  actually retain the intellectual property rights, so the patents on those things and then profit.

So Fauci and all of his minions they are profiting from off of this and people don’t understand this, but anyway so coming full circle I started out as an MBA, saw a lot of the corruption in the corporate world first-hand myself and then as this all started to unfold last year, I could see where it was all going and decided to start Health Freedom Defence Fund and a wonderful, amazingly accomplished lawyer came into my life shortly before that and so he is my general council, which I can talk about but that’s basically the answer for that, Reiner.

Reiner Fuellmich: Well that case then, the case with the client from the pharmaceutical industry, it sounds like the Ford Pinto case, do you remember that one? I mean, they don’t care as long as they make money. They don’t even care if people die.

LM: I know, it’s jaw dropping. People just don’t understand it yet and I think I have a very unique perspective perhaps from having been at a fairly y’know successful level in that world, and people just don’t understand that the thing is that everyone thinks oh well we’ve got, everything’s okay because we have, so the way it works in finance is that the big institutional investment managers, pension funds and things like that, they are supposed to act as a check, a checking balance on the corporate world right, so if they think that management is doing something that’s inappropriate or wrong then the big institutional investment managers should say something, that’s the whole point of shareholders, right? The problem is that the line of thinking has become if you’re invested in the stock then you should support management. So that checking balance has been completely destroyed by this idea that well you shouldn’t own the company, own stock in the company if you don’t like what management is doing. The whole point is to have shareholders who are active and who are saying hey, you shouldn’t pay your CEO that much, or this isn’t appropriate you know to hold them accountable and that’s not happening.

Reiner Fuellmich: I thought that was changing I thought that shareholders were beginning to be much more active, but maybe that’s not the case anymore?

LM: Well Reiner I think what it is is that I haven’t  been in that world for almost twenty years now and so I think I finished in 2003 was when I fully ended my career, and yes some shareholders are becoming more active and there are some organisations that are more activist type, but it’s usually around a specific issue like climate change or something like that. It’s almost always a gender or issue driven rather than just pure corporate governance. And yes, it’s getting better, but you know we’re talking about the trillion of dollars that are held by these asset managers and they’re not really providing the proper check that you would have thought that they were providing. It’s a very interesting thing.

Reiner Fuellmich: I’ve been to a number of annual meetings of some of the German corporations and it turns out that those who were really in power, of course, the large institutional investors and they’re always in line with management, so I guess maybe nothing has changed? It looked like it was changing, but then again no, and they’re only…

LM:…the thing is there’s a reason for it, so you know our kind of corporate policy was that don’t own the stock if you don’t like what management is doing, which is you know…

Reiner Fuellmich: …yeah…

LM:…kind of understandable, but there’s the other thing is that if you’re agitating and you’re different, if you’re really challenging what the CEO or the CFO, you know the corporate management are doing, they don’t actually wanna talk with you, so if you want access to management you have to “play nice”, and in order to, you want access to management in order to really understand the business so you can make the most accurate investment decision, so it’s a very it’s a conflicting and challenging situation like so many in life right?

Reiner Fuellmich: Uh huh.

LM: That the investment, the research analyst and the portfolio managers play nice with management, even if they don’t like something that they’re doing, because they need access to them and the thing is the investor relations person is the gatekeeper and if you’re a pain in the butt you’re not gonna get meetings with these people.

Reiner Fuellmich: Hmm.

LM: If you don’t get meetings with these people then you can’t do your job as well.

Reiner Fuellmich: Hmm.

Vivienne: So now we see a lot of, you know with the revolving door with the authorities that are supposed to watch over the safety issues say for the vaccines and other you know medical devices and stuff. And they’re also not doing a good job because like it’s you know like this like an intertwinement basically of conflicting interests as what we can see everywhere now. I mean looking at the Drosden situation where he comes out with the research paper and then at the same time you know that’s then being cited by the WHO and then you know it’s like he’s involved and his company TIB Molbiol you know that produces the PCR test, it’s like a huge, yeah I don’t know like a huge amount of conflicting interests and we somethings don’t even know about this, but when we do it’s not looking very good.

LM: Yeah so, ,Vivienne, people have no idea how controlled everything they see is, and when I say everything they see, I mean not just the newspaper, not just television news, but in the medical journals, what the hospital research centres would, all of the research centres and Government agencies and entities are putting out, and the reason for that is twofold.

Number one is the vast majority of research almost all research is done either by the pharmaceutical industry or tax fare Government grants that are taxpayer funded, and Government has policies right, they promote vaccines, they promote all sorts of things. They promote the pharmaceutical industry in many many ways, and the pharmaceutical industry is the number one advertiser in all the media outlets, seventy percent of television news in the United States in a non-election year. They…

Reiner Fuellmich:…seventy seven zero?

LM: Seven zero.

Reiner Fuellmich: Holy schmokes.

LM: Yea, not to mention they spend something like, I have to think if I remember this figure correctly but something like $4 billion dollars every year in the United States in all sorts of promotion advertising marketing, you know all different kinds of things that they do. But they also are the biggest purchaser of what is called medical journal reprints. So when medical journals are put out, you know doctors subscribe and libraries and other institutions subscribe, and that’s one portion of the revenue stream for these journals, but a gigantic portion, if I remember correctly, forty percent in some cases maybe fifty percent, is actually called journal reprints and so what happens is the pharmaceutical industry funds the research, they oftentimes have ghost written research so they just pay someone to write it and this has been revealed in lawsuits against Eli Lilly and other corporations over time, and then they’ll just put some doctor’s name on it who wants to show they’ve been “published” and then they get it published in a peer review journal and then they pay for reprints of that peer reviewed journal, so they get an article really glossy and nicely printed of their research that’s been published in the journal, and then they send it out all over the world. So if you’re a medical journal and that’s forty percent of your revenues, are you going to be very discerning about what you publish? Or are you going to publish things that are very sympathetic to the pharmaceutical industry, and that’s what happens.

And then there’s another piece of it which is really important. I mentioned the Bidol Act. Well in 1992 The Prescription Drug User Fee Act was passed in the United States by the Congress, and it was updated in, I think, 2007 and then more recently, and what this did was actually facilitate industry capturing FDA. Okay so it used to be that FDA was just funded by taxpayer dollars, right it was a Government entity. Now, FDA drug approvers drug reviewers fifty to sixty percent of their salaries are paid directly by the pharmaceutical industry itself. More than that even in some years, yes, so The Prescription Drug User Fee Act, as I mentioned it was passed in 92 and they were like oh it’s just gonna be small you know it’s a hundred million dollars or something like that, now I looked at something the budget is now at over a billion dollars, I think it was $1.3 billion dollars if the thing that I was looking at is correct. That’s what the forecast, or that’s what it was in 2017, the fees are the total percentage of the program sixty three percent, so you have a situation where the FDA drug reviewers are beholden to the pharmaceutical industry itself rather than to the people that they are supposed to be protecting, the public.

It is just so corrupt, and there’s a third wheel of this which is that it’s not just the pharmaceutical industry, but in the first decade in this century the Gates Foundation gave a billion dollars to the media in the United States.

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s the point.

LM: Okay, a billion dollars, and what did they do it for? They “gave” of course right, they gave them a billion dollars in order to make sure that they were trained and educated to portray the Gates Foundation perspective accurately.

Reiner Fuellmich: Accurately, yeah. Whatever that means?

LM: Exactly.

Reiner Fuellmich: The thing is it’s more than a spider web…

LM: …(inaudiable) to ignore

Reiner Fuellmich: … it’s a swamp of corruption…

LM:…it’s massive collusion…

Reiner Fuellmich: …and it’s everywhere, it’s everywhere. It includes all areas of society. It includes politics, it includes industry, it probably includes some of the courts as well. We know that it does here in Europe. We know that it does in Germany.

LM: Yes.

RF: And there are few people out there who are capable of understanding what’s going on even amongst the legal community here, I mean the judiciary. There are sixty or perhaps seventy judges and prosecutors, or is it more, who don’t want to play along with this.

Vivienne: We don’t know the numbers.

Reiner Fuellmich: It may be a little less, but it’s a group of people which pales in comparison to the huge number of judges, I think there’s sixty thousand or so in this country, so we’re dealing with the same problems all over the world and I think we do need to, everywhere you look you see corruption. There’s a group which I used to belong to, I think I just cancelled my membership, it’s Transparency International, which they have great people working for this group, it’s an anti-corruption NGO, but at the very top that’s where the corruption is, so we do have to have a great reset quite different from what the other side wants it to be. Quite different.

LM: Yes we do need a, I mean I think that that’s something we can all agree on that we do need a reset. We need to clean house…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah, we need to clean house.

LM: Our Governments tax us with no intention, tax us and spend with no intention of ever repaying.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah.

Reiner Fuellmich: US debt is now something like $28 trillion dollars.

Reiner Fuellmich: Oh my God.

LM: It was only $4 trillion literally like fifteen years ago, I mean this is unreal right?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah.

LM: It is insane what we’re experiencing and it’s because it’s not just,so you know I’ve talked about one piece of it, but there’s the other part of it, which is that you don’t get anywhere unless you are willing to play ball with these groups, right?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, good point.

LM: And there’s something really important too, there’s an amazing book called None Dare Call it Conspiracy that came out in the 1970s and it was a follow up to something called the Church Committee and there were investigations by Congress into the focus of non-profit foundations in the United States, okay? So, non-profits didn’t exist at the turn of the twentieth century, they were created in their early part of the, I forget, I think it was 1908 1910 nineteen, somewhere around that arrangement in that area and they appear to be for philanthropic purposes but really what’s happened is that they are a secret way for the super-rich to amass wealth, manage their wealth and deploy it secretly tax-free. So what happens is that those foundations, and this was the issue with the investigations, revealed was that these foundations are using their influence and their “tax-free” money to fund the universities, to fund the research hospitals, to fund academia, to fund all sorts of “grassroots“ NGO’s, non-profits and things like that. And to subvert our educational system, to do a huge spectrum of things which are all destroying the fabric of our societies. This was revealed and then it was, of course, very very quickly covered up, but you can read that book and you can really understand what’s going on. And there was also something called the Reece Committee, which it was the Reece Committee that investigated this, the Church Committee investigated the CIA putting operatives into the media into The New York Times and The Washington Post and all these other major media outlets.

Reiner Fuellmich: They’re probably still there.

LM: Of course they are, oh no “they still”, they ended the program, Reiner, they suspended it of course, ah ha.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah right

LM: Publicly, right. There’s something I can share, really quickly, because it’s really important to understand that there’s all of that and then for the last twenty years they’ve been really laying the groundwork for this moment.

Reiner Fuellmich: Hmm.

LM: And what they did was in the United States, in particular, they introduced after 9/11 they introduced the Patriot Act, which allowed workless, search and seizure, and mass surveillance of Americans and that was literally introduced and passed forty-five days after 9/11. That’s just impossible?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah.

LM: Right, and then within a couple of weeks the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act Legislation was introduced and it’s been ratified in part, in whole or in part, by I think forty three states the last time I looked, and what that did was confer extraordinary police powers to health departments and governors in the event of a disease outbreak.

Reiner Fuellmich: And of course, once they have that power, they will never give it up again.

LM: Exactly and then in 2005 the Prep Act…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah…

LM:…which conferred more power to the Secretary of Human Services and provided immunity from any kind of prosecution so legal and financial liability for vaccines ,or any kind of medical product used during an emergency, and then you fast forward to 2012-2013 and 2016 and they legalised propagandizing American citizens, set up the programme to do it, and funded it. So anything that you read or watch anywhere in the media could possibly be pure lies and subversion by our own intelligence agencies in order to manipulate and control the populace.

Reiner Fuellmich: You know the good thing is that it’s all coming out into the open now. All of it…

LM…very much…

Reiner Fuellmich:…all of it. Slowly but surely, but it’s picking up speed actually because the other side, in some ways, seems to be panicking. You mentioned when we talked last time that there is some evidence that this, not ours not the one that I was talking about, but their great reset has failed, or is failing in the United States, because some of the states just don’t play along anymore.

LM: First of all it’s actually quite hilarious, I read yesterday that, when I say it’s hilarious please do not misconstrue my meaning that people who have been injured or you know, God forbid, died from this that there is you know that I don’t have any heart or don’t care about them, I care about anybody who dies and anybody who is injured by a medical product, anyone who’s injured or sick (inaudible) I mean nobody wants that to happen and nobody wants people to be injured or to die from any reason, right? I wanna just be really clear on that because I think it’s so easy for these people to try and misconstrue those of us who care about our liberty.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah we know that.

LM: So what I find hilarious is that they are constantly pushing you know ringing the alarm bells about how frightened we should all be and pushing the vaccines, which have not been tested, which they suspended the clinical trials by unblinding the control groups and offering the control groups the vaccine two months after they were issued the emergency use authorisation. And what’s happens is that they’ve wanted, right they keep telling us, Fauci and Gates and all these people keep telling us that there will be no going back to normal until everyone’s vaccinated, and yet those who are vaccinated, like Fauci, are still wearing masks, but what happened what I read yesterday is that they have administered about two hundred, I think it was two hundred and four million doses of the vaccines since they were issued, and eighty four or eighty five million have received two doses, so they’re “fully vaccinated”, but all of these major vaccination centres are struggling because demand is petering out and they don’t know what to do. They’re having to figure out how to drum up more demand for them, and so think about that, if only eighty-four million people in America have bene fully vaccinated that’s about a quarter of our population.

Reiner Fuellmich: Uh huh.

LM: That really suggests to me that they are not in control of the narrative.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes.

LM: That the other side is really struggling because, and that these super centres, super centre vaccination centres are having to figure out what to do because they’ve got too much vaccine and no demand for it. They are struggling and then you’ve got this just massive liberty movement in states across the nation and Governors who are now really starting to buck the narrative, and so I do really think that, I think one of the reasons why it’s appeared to be the hardest, one of the hardest hit countries, the United States is because this is a global take down of democracy…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah…

LM: …it’s a global coup. It’s an effort to destroy western civilisation and I’m sorry, I really believe this, and it’s not because it’s a conspiracy theory because Klaus Schwab has written a book about it…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah…

LM:…and this is what the World Economic Forum puts forth all the time, you know his book is COVID-19 The Great Reset. Anyway, the point is that I think one of the reasons why where’s been so much focus on the United States is precisely because the United States has this, was founded on the ideology and the principles of liberty, individual liberty, individual accountability…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah, they want to quash that…

LM: …and they have to destroy that if they want to succeed. I think that you know the socialist mentality is much stronger in Europe than it is in the US…

Reiner Fuellmich:…it probably is yeah…

LM:…and what’s happened is that they’ve poked us in the eye and now people are really really ready for the fight…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah…

LM:….so what we’ve done is you know what’s that, they’ve woken a sleeping bear I think is what’s happened.

Reiner Fuellmich: Which is good.

Vivienne: I have one question. Do you think that’s a realistic number this eighty-five million Americans vaccinated or could this also be like an exaggeration and it’s maybe only forty million or something like that, so that they are even like making up that figure?

Reiner Fuellmich: Who knows.

LM: it is very hard to say. That was reported in the mainstream media so it could be a complete lie. I find it surprising I think though that they would, it’s an embarrassing number…

Reiner Fuellmich:…yeah it is…

LM:…so I would be surprised you know, maybe it is forty million and they’re exaggerating because that would be embarrassing, but clearly it’s not what they were expecting.

Reiner Fuellmich: No, absolutely not. This is not part of their plan.

LM: So Reiner, can I just say you know everything that I’ve been talking about is the reason that I founded Health Freedom Defence Fund, and Health Freedom Defence Fund is focussed on, we’re first of all collaborating with Reiner and you guys and your whole team, and secondly we are focussed on pushing back against this agenda through litigation and education, so we are helping employees at the Los Angeles Unified School District to sue their school district for forcing the vaccine on them, and we have a mask mandate lawsuit that will be filed very soon, and we have some very big picture you know high level challenges that are in the works that will really go for the head of the serpent on this whole issue. I don’t want to  go into detail about them but I will just say around the, about a year and a half ago an amazing lawyer whom you know Reiner was brought into my life and I started educating him about the corruption and collusion, you know between the federal health agencies and the pharmaceutical industry and the whole vaccine issue and that vaccine makers can’t be sued and all this, and he was so so shocked by it all he became really inspired to do something about it, so he is my general counsel his name is George Wentz and he’s a partner at Davillier Law Group and he couldn’t be with us this morning, but I mean he I think a strategic and legal genius…

Reiner Fuellmich:…Yes I agree too…

LM:… and he’s my general counsel and so we are doing everything we can and collaborating with several different groups to help push back against what we face as a nation and a world.

Vivienne: You know I think it’s very interesting that we, you know looking at what we’ve already heard from all the lawyers involved here now, and from you, I think it really becomes clear that it must be some sort of agenda because it’s so strange that it’s happening in every country in exactly the same way, because if it was not like a coordinated thing, or at least to some extent orchestrated, then why would the judges in Germany, you know this whole legal the change of the legislation and all of that, why would this happen basically at the same time with almost the same agenda or like making it harder and harder for us to push legally against what’s happening, so I think it cannot be that this is just mere coincidence that it’s all over the world.

Reiner Fuellmich: Of course, it’s an agenda, there’s no doubt about it.

LM: Yeah, and to that point specifically Europe had the plans for a vaccine passport a year and a half before this pandemic happened.

Reiner Fuellmich: Ah ha.

LM: How is that possible that they had the plans for that? I mean if that wasn’t the case and in the United States they’ve been trying for decades, two decades at least, to push for mandatory vaccination of the populace, they’ve been trying everywhere, and they’re changing they’ve literally rammed things through, I mean it’s all coordinated.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay ,we now have to go and talk to our Austrian colleagues, who are waiting, but I’m really glad you’re on board, Leslie. This is good.

LM: Thank you so much.

Reiner Fuellmich: This is very encouraging.

LM: Can I just give my website too, it’s healthfreedomdefence.org so if anybody wants to learn more about what we’re doing or support our work please go to healthfreedomdefence.org, and thank you so much for having me on you guys.

Reiner Fuellmich: Thank you for being with us. We’ll put it up on our website too.

LM: It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for all you’re doing to try and help everybody and for what you’re doing for humanity.

Reiner Fuellmich: We can only do it together, and we will.

LM: Yeah.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay Leslie. Talk to you later then.

LM: Okay.

1:49:52 – 2:12:26 Reiner Fuellmich: Okay now, Austria Andrea Steindl, can you hear us, are you with us from Austria? Can we speak English or (inaudible). Okay. I’ll translate. She’s an attorney Andrea Steindl in Austria. She is a member of the extra parliamentary corona investigative committee, which is just what we’re doing here in Germany, and she is also a member of a group of lawyers who take special care and who are worried about the constitution. Plus, and that’s why she’s here, she is a member of the group that concerns itself with vaccinations. Okay.

Our colleague and her group that deals with vaccinations, of course, realised very quickly that much of the “success” of this campaign depends upon massive media campaigns, in her case or rather in the case of Austria, under the name of effective and safe. Now, they are looking at these campaigns because this may be illegal advertising. In fact, much of what they found is that it is illegal advertising. One of the rules in Austria says that members of the healthcare community cannot be part of this, but they are, and they have been fighting this in the court. So they did take these cases to court, but this far even though it seems to be quite clear that this is illegal even members of the healthcare committee cannot be part of these campaigns and they still do, this should be illegal but thus far no success in the courts of law.

Vivienne: I think they didn’t take it to the courts of law. She asked them to take it to the court, but they didn’t comply.

Reiner Fuellmich: So you didn’t take them to courts, okay.

Vivienne: Because they couldn’t because other people.

Reiner Feullmich: So another piece of information that is probably interesting for most of us is that they even came across a folder in which the campaign for vaccinations is, I mean this is totally out of hand, obviously. So this is very interesting, these folders were found even in homes for the handicapped and what they show is, on the one side probably colourful pictures of how you can see your family again after you get vaccinated, on the other side in not so colourful pictures you see a grave if you don’t get vaccinated, and what I didn’t know she just pointed to me the same picture is the same kind of media campaigns that are being pushed in Germany, almost identical.

Vivienne: And over here it’s very much illegal you know to do this kind of advertising, we have a law that prohibits like misleading campaigns for…

Reiner Fuellmich:…advertising, in the context misleading advertising is always illegal, but this is a special law…

Vivienne:…this special law it’s even like the criminal fines are stipulated in this law in case you don’t comply with it, and for instance it’s illegal here to come out with like a healing promise that can really help you, or like saying that if you don’t do this you get severe disadvantages, which would suggest like what’s going on with this campaign that you just said, and here we have an advertising that is saying oh we all get vaccinated, but grandma first suggesting that it’s no big deal and that it’s something everyone should get. I mean it’s such a mean thing, but here it’s such a problem because it’s a criminal law basically so you would need to take it to the district attorney you know to report them to the district attorney, which in fact you could do, but then we have the problem that here the district attorneys are not going to look at it. You know they don’t even want to look at doing autopsies…

Reiner Fuellmich:…they are completely in line with the Government.

Vivienne: That’s the problem.

Reiner Fuellmich: And if they do investigate and their superior will very quickly tell them “stop it” and they have to stop it. So, all people know basically, and this is not just true for Austria – this is true for Germany as well, and as we’ve heard from Renate it’s the same thing in Italy even though people are waking up and the same thing as Francis Hoar told us in Great Britain, and of course in Canada, so the only fact that people know is that which is being brought to them through the mainstream media, through these gigantic campaigns which claim effective and safe, but of course we know that you cannot make such an assertion without having first conducted the medical trials and no medical trials, no studies have been conducted. How can the Government tell the people effective and safe? But they have made inroads into the mainstream media, as she explained to us, she and a former employee of the WHO Dr Beeran who we interviewed here in our corona committee plus Dr Ava a biologist, they made it into the mainstream media and they have been able to explain and tell people about, for example, the annulment complaints that were filed against the conditional use against the European Union.

Okay, what they are doing in this group of lawyers is they are not confining themselves to making these things known over the mainstream media or the media in general, but they are also directly addressing the members of parliament, and those people who run the chambers of doctors, plus they have come up with a dashboard on their own website of the extra parliamentary committee which collects all the data on adverse reactions and what (inaudible) believes, and all the others too, is what they get, the information they get is just a fraction of what is really going on, just a tiny fraction of what we really experience as far as adverse reactions are concerned.

So, there is a case that made the international headlines of a forty-nine-year-old nurse who died after getting vaccinated. There were no prior medical conditions, she was basically a healthy person. After getting vaccinated she died blood clotting, which as we now know from having interviewed Professor Bhakti and others, is a typical side effect or adverse effect. They alerted the administration the public agencies to this, and asked for an immediate stop of further vaccinations, of course they didn’t really react rather, they got the answer that there may be correlation, but not causation and that this is not a typical risk – we know now that it is, but this is the information they got. Now she’s asking how can she know about typical risks if the studies that deal with the safety of these so-called vaccines haven’t even been conducted yet. Very strange.

My take on what’s going on in Austria is that it’s a small country, but they have made much more progress than most other countries. Some of it may have to do with the quality of the lawyers, quality meaning that they are much more optimistic than most others and they’re much more sure of themselves, let me put it that way, and she just pointed out that the next Austrian colleague Mr Beneder always says, and I’m gonna have it tell us himself, “in the end, truth and the light wins”, and that’s probably true.

2:12:27 – 2:27:29 –  – Gerold Beneder: Hello everybody to Italy, Great Britain, Canada, Austria, Russia (inaudible) and all the lawyers sitting and watching and the people also, and this was my English and my (inaudible) to German because the difficult things I can only say in German.

Reiner Fuellmich: The probably now new decision by an administrative law court in Vienna is the most obvious success that this group of lawyers has achieved over the last couple of weeks, and our colleague Mr Beneder quotes from this decision. It was a appellate decision against the prohibition of a demonstration and the officials had based this prohibition, of course, on the assumption that probably people wouldn’t keep distances as they are supposably obliged to do. The court agreed with the plaintiffs on all points, which is highly unusual. Each individual aspect the court agreed with on the plaintiff’s side. In particular, they concentrated on the PCR test and how they cannot tell you anything about infections, in particular that positive cases do not mean infections, that you need real illnesses, that you need symptoms on top of just a positive test result, and that you cannot trust anything beyond, so finally this court has agreed that anything beyond thirty-five is completely useless because you end up at ninety-seven percent false positives. It also agreed that the rising case numbers are the result of the rising test numbers.

The second decision that Mr Beneder won is by another administrative law court in Upper Austria and without, this is remarkable because this was not even, he hadn’t even asked for preliminary injunction, but this is a real and normal case. It was tried, and decided, within six days, and this case dealt with whether or not the exemptions that a doctor writes for the mask mandates whether or not this needs to be taken seriously when there’s a criminal investigation. So, this court found that it doesn’t make a difference if a doctor is being investigated because of the number of exemptions that he wrote. Even if a doctor is under investigation the exemptions are still valid, so that doesn’t make a difference, and what also doesn’t make a difference is that if there is a long-distance physical distance between the doctor and the patient because there is a free choice of doctors, anyone can choose anyone, as any patient can choose any doctor for treatment.

The third that he referred to is, it’s not really a case but there’s a new rules and regulations in Vienna which is the capital of Austria that in those places, in particular in those places where people like to demonstrate they have to wear masks now, they have a mask mandate even if it’s seventy-five degrees they have to wear masks, but as Mr Beneder pointed out the population doesn’t really like it and obviously there is going to be push back against this.

The next step they’re going to take is to attack the mask mandate and they’re going to once again ask the constitutional court to take a closer look at these, because in many instances it simply doesn’t make any sense to have to wear masks outdoors and in particular places at this time of year.

Dr Michael Brunner, Lawyer, Austria

2:27:31 – 2:40:09 – Reiner Fuellmich – There are now fifty attorneys in this group of Attorney’s for Constitutional Rights, as they call themselves. Now this is a lot considering that the entire population of attorney’s is six thousand, so fifty attorneys are cooperating in this group of Attorney’s for Constitutional Rights. They are very active and there are new decisions by the constitutional court. In the meantime, Dr Brunner explained to us that about twenty-five ordinances, rules and regulations have been suspended because there’s no factual, and of course no legal basis for it, including mask mandates, sport activities, or the rule that in order to go into a hospital and visit patients you will have to give them all your personal data, there is no legal foundation for this is what the constitutional court declared.

Also, mask mandates when it comes to cabs, if you sit in a cab you don’t have to wear the masks anymore because, again there is absolutely no legal no factual foundation for this and no, this is important, no documentation in any of the files. Dr Brunner says that they probably didn’t put anything into the files because they don’t have anything and in his estimation almost all of the ordinances that were passed between March 16^th of 2020 and September 20^th of 2020 are unconstitutional.

Next thing is they are dealing with the PCR tests. So this is interesting, he filed a constitutional complaint on December 4^th and he has the perfect case because he’s representing a nurse who, back then, was obliged to get tested once a week now it’s even twice a week. Dr Brunner is very optimistic that he’s going to win this case because he has given the court a lot of expert opinions, in the meantime there are quite a few expert opinions all over the world, by the way, and on the other side the Secretary of Health hasn’t given the court anything except for two links in their brief.

So I asked him if this is normal, I mean if you go to court if you defend a case in court, in particular at the level of the constitutional court, usually you try to get prepared as best as you can, and I asked him why is this happening don’t they believe in their own case, and he says well it’s hard to explain because ordinarily of course you do expect a party in such an important lawsuit to bring evidence to show the court evidence and in this case they didn’t really show any evidence. Those two links one of them was actually referring to the German RKI, which is the German equivalent of the American CDC and he says well why don’t they even try to at least give them Austrian evidence? Probably because there isn’t any.

This is important because in my mind one of the most important questions is does the Government still act according to what it’s courts decide, and Dr Brunner says well he has the impression that the Government doesn’t really care about what the courts decide. The question is though, however, he says that the population will not play along with this much longer. And he says the focal point of the legal proceedings are now, everything is focusing on the PCR test because if you get the courts to understand that PCR tests cannot detect tell you anything about infections, and he also says that there are no asymptomatic infections and if they were, this is what Fauci says, if there were any it wouldn’t play any role in the context of infections. So if you get the courts to understand that those two lies, which were invented by the way by Drosden, that those two assessments or assertions are wrong and the whole house of cards is going to collapse.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi, Laywer and Medical Doctor, Argentina

2:40:21 – 3:00:02 – Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi from Argentina. Are you with us?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Hello, how are you?

Hello I’m Christina, I am going to translate for my three colleagues. I am in Chile at the moment and I’m going to be the translator of the three of them.

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s very helpful thank you very much. Okay, so how’s the situation in Argentina?

Christina: Thank you very much. Should I translate all, correct?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes please.

Christina: He says thank you very much that he’s invited to participate and he’s very happy and he will begin to explain all what is going on in Argentina.

Reiner Fuellmich: Very good.

Christina: My name is Miguel Iannolfi and I am a lawyer and I also am a teacher of martial art, and I also study medicine.

Reiner Fuellmich: Excellent.

Christina: When this begun, one of my teachers was in contact with a Professor (inaudible) in Germany. They knew what was going on at the moment and what was the intention of all this. He says he’s sorry about the noise but he lives in (inaudible) where it’s too noisy outside, so he turn it off for a while but he turn the microphone off now. A very good friend of the doctor (inaudible) Martinez we worked together to find out what was going on with the ONS according to all this plandemic. They were studying from the time of the ONS they were saying there was a virus that this was going only twenty-four days. For him when it was declared a pandemic it was impossible when finding out with a doctor that it took twenty-four days to determine that there was a virus and this virus was saying there was a ‘pandemic’ all over the planet. Only twenty-four days they were going on. Reiner if you have a specific question please ask if you want to know a specific. He says that written down paper study that they did and going around the world up to now and then nobody could find out that something was wrong there. They were making a penalty court because of this written down paper they have.

Reiner Fuellmich: Who, what is this paper? Who…

Christina: …this study that they were doing here and the genetica doctor, but they were only covering twenty-four days (inaudible) was saying that there was a virus and they made a plandemic. With this they went to court in Argentina.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi : This paper is very important for all the world because we have, in the group, one of the most important genetics of the world, Luis Marcelo Martinez.

Christina: The study is in English and in French and it is open for all the public.

Reiner Fuellmich: Can we have it, we need a copy of this.

Christina: I can send it to you.

Reiner Fuellmich: Excellent, we will then publish it on our website so that all of our colleagues from all over the world can have it.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Okay.

Christina: After this they made a group in Argentina and he’s a lawyer. There are more or less four hundred lawyers.

Reiner Fuellmich: Four hundred lawyers?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Yes.

Christina: And they began a lot of lawsuits cos of this.

Reiner Fuellmich: What is in the paper? What does it say exactly? What in this paper can you use in order to go to court? What does it say that makes it possible to attack the pandemic, or plandemic?

Christina: The study is a scientific revision about what caused the (inaudible) to declare the pandemic. It’s a very long study I have it also, it’s a lot of pages, maybe I send it to you Reiner and you read it because it’s very long. It’s excellent, but it’s very long.

Reiner Fuellmich: And it says that, who made this paper?

Christina: Okay, it was done by the doctor who is the genetist and other doctors of this group. They are trying with all the lawyers to help the people in the best way that is possible for them.

Reiner Fuellmich: And you have a group of four-hundred lawyers?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: More or less.

Reiner Fuellmich: Wow. That is great.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Yes.

Reiner Fuellmich: How come? Are people really angry, are people beginning to understand they are being fooled?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Yes yes, but it’s very difficult because I cannot…

Christina:…it is very difficult for them because they are constantly attacked from everywhere, and they are trying to help the people every day in the court and things and it is very difficult for them because they have a lot of people against them.

Reiner Fuellmich: So they are (inaudible) in a state of panic, right.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: All the time. It is terror terror terror all the time.

Reiner Fuellmich: But it seems from people from what you’re telling us it seems that people are beginning to catch on and are beginning to understand that something is wrong. They’re asking questions obviously, despite the fact that they’re being constantly kept in panic mode by the mainstream media. Is it again the mainstream media?

Christina: Politics, doctors, there is only (inaudible) in Corona at the moment, that’s it. So when somebody needs to go to a doctor they don’t get a (inaudible) because the person can only say I have Covid, otherwise you don’t go through (inaudible). They made three lawsuits against three doctors. In the media you only hear that the hospitals are full so he and others are going in and making films to show that it’s not true.

Reiner Fuellmich: That is extremely interesting because we’re hearing the same story from everywhere. I mean all of the media keep reporting that the hospitals are full, they’re overcrowded, that the doctors and nurses there are beyond capacity they cannot work because they are totally exhausted. That’s always the same story, but when I talk to the people like my sister, for example who’s a nurse, she tells me no that’s not the case. But they are trying to induce panic in everyone, including the medical personnel. Same story in Argentina, obviously?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Yes.

Christina: The doctors are afraid, and the journalists are also afraid. (inaudible) the journalists are afraid because of money. It’s not like this, they are really afraid and they believe in what is going on with Corona. They are afraid of ‘the flu’.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, but it seems more and more people are beginning to understand so we’re getting the same picture from what Lesley Manookin just told us from the United States and our colleague, Ana Gardner. Reality and illusion is what people are being confronted with and more and more people are beginning to see the reality beyond the illusion. Is that the same in Argentina?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: It’s exactly the same.

Vivienne: And what is the vaccination situation like in Argentina?

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: We have a vaccine, Pfizer in phase three, an experimental vaccination.

Christina: They put out a law that says it’s not mandatory, but in the letter it is.

Reiner Fuellmich: It’s the same agenda all over the world.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: It’s the same, but with (inaudible).

Christina: (inaudible) two important things, company vaccine it has legal immunity for the labs, which means that the labs are not responsible if something is going on.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yep, same in the United States as we have just heard. If you go to court, on what basis do you attack? Do you also attack the PCR test?

Christina: There is so much going on in Argentina that they don’t manage to make another lawsuit against the PCR, they have so many problems they have to attend the people in court, that there are so many that they don’t come along with anything else.

Reiner Fuellmich: Well, I think it’s important to know that if you destroy the foundation and those are the two basic foundations on which everything else is based, the lie that the PCR test can tell you something about infections, because if they can’t and we know they can’t, you don’t have any infections. And the other lie is of course asymptomatic infections. If that is the basis for all this testing of healthy people, only because people believe that people who show no symptoms who are asymptomatic could potentially be dangerous, only for this reason is there a mass testing of completely healthy people, so if you destroy these two myths, or lies, or false statements of fact, then the whole house of cards is going to collapse. So, if you need the decisions, you’ve probably heard about the decisions, or you can have one of our complaints which include these decisions, the first one from Portugal, the second one from Vienna, and the third one from a family law court here in Germany. If you want this, we’ll mail it to you.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Thank you so much.

Christina: Yes, I wanted to say, and he wanted to say the same here, we are in South America and we are in Argentina and justice only looks where the wind blows, so it’s not so easy like in Europe. He is doing what he can with his colleagues, but it’s really difficult because it’s not the same conditions like in Europe.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, I believe it, and it’s also not just the courts of law that will make the difference, it’s a combination of going to the courts of law and educating people, bringing out the truth, and of course political activism.

Christina: Not all the judges are the same, but for the judges it’s very difficult for them to (inaudible) or to say something against the system, the politicians, the new laws, the doctors, and the media.

Reiner Fuellmich: But I do think that it could be helpful, like the Americans and the Canadians agree, it could be helpful for you two in South America to connect with us and use our legal arguments and use our evidence as much as you can because the facts are the same all over the world. The facts are always the same all over the world. All these lockdowns, all these anti corona measures are basely solely on two false statements of fact that were invented by this German guy by the name of Drosden – asymptomatic infections and PCR tests for detection of infections. The facts are always the same. Knock them out and the whole house of cards is going to collapse.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Yes. Gracias. Thank you very much.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay, well thank you very much. We’ll be in touch. We will email you the stuff that we have and hopefully you can make use of this.

Miguel Luis Marcelo Iannolfi: Okay thank you so much.

3:00:13 – 3:19:41 Gustafo.

Christina: Gustavo is an old man he needs the (inaudible).  Thank you very much for the invitation. Friends, we are in a war, the third world war he says. The genocide elite are turning the world against the people, he says. He says it’s more than being a lawyer they have to be the fighters.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, absolutely.

Christina: I don’t know its going to be a point of going back to the fixture and in the law. They are going to bring a law that is going to bring the things back again.

Reiner Fuellmich: Very good.

Christina: They are making the COVID passport, what he wants to say is the game (inaudible) backwards? They are going to make, they want to implement a COVID passport. They want to make also a green card that means that this is a green passport that is going to have all the people that have got the vaccine to be able to participate in all the social activities. So all the people that have no vaccine are going to be a pharmacological fate. They are going to be treated like the libra people that lived in the medieval age It was (inaudible) in Urugray that the university the (inaudible) and the group that is giving advice to the President they conferred with a public document that the vaccines, that they don’t know anything about the vaccines, and they made a public document about this saying that they have no idea about the vaccines.

Reiner Fuellmich: Oh my God. But how can they do that if they don’t even know what’s going on? Are they just following orders and if so, whose orders?

Christina: All the politicians, he said, they are puppets that they are obeying somebody else.

Reiner Fuellmich: I agree.

Christina: Why like Miguel also said in the war has two components a virus components component and one of the media, two things are going together. I don’t think that I need to translate.

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s what it’s all about. The funny thing is that it becomes clearer and clearer that there’s absolutely no factual evidence to support the idea of this virus being dangerous, and that there’s no factual evidence, of course not, that there is anything good in the vaccines. And this seems to be the case all over the world. In some countries, they don’t even try to hide this like in your country. It’s incredible.

Christina: He said that the minister the university and the Ministry of Health and the government (inaudible). The people that are in the government are saying 100 percent sure that the COVID exists and it is a very dangerous and (inaudible) sickness. That COVID practically kills everybody.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, but there’s no evidence for it is there?

Christina: No. He says that this is a way of, through the media, because like (inaudible) was saying a lie that is repeated 100 times is going to be the truth, let’s say it’s like this and the media has 100 percent to do in all what is going on in the moment. But I will say I don’t know why but in Chile and Argentina is the same.

Vivienne: How many people have died officially in Uruguay from COVID?

Christina: So he said that in the year 2020 they felt ministry was saying that those dying was less than 1 percent of the people in (inaudible) 160, 175.

Reiner Fuellmich: So where’s the evidence for a pandemic, there’s nothing. It’s incredible that they’re not even trying to hide this in Uruguay.

Christina: He says that this sustain through the brought in political government, the media all what is the media, newspapers TV, and radio etc are mercenaries, as he calls them. Or that they are afraid. This number 174 was in one year?

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s nothing. What’s happening in the courts. Are there any lawsuits going on or how do you fight this?

Christina: There are two things, one is that there is a group in Uruguay called Doctor’s for the Truth that they are sustaining what you were saying, Reiner, they none lie le’t’s see the truth, yeah. You know, there’s only one lawyer, I don’t know why, who made a lawsuit with the signature of him because he’s already invented, the signature of him and other people and he’s called Enrique Vianna. Only one. I don’t know why there is not a state of law.

Reiner Fuellmich: Oh my god. What does that mean? Does it mean that the country is being ruled by autocratic rulers? Is there no democracy if you have no rule of law? How can there be democracy?

Vivienne: There is no democracy nowhere (inaudible) but no democracies anywhere.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, he’s right, he’s right.

Christina: What is ruling is a word that he created that I was sending to you, Reiner, that is called Klepto Corporatocrat Fear.

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s a good word.

Christina: Klepto Corporato Crazia.

Reiner Fuellmich: Klepto Corporate yeah.

Christina: Klepto is the thief, the one who steals.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes I know.

Christina: The one who bribes yeah. Corporato is the corporations the law of the big corporations corporato. Thr power of the corporations are still the people of the fifth corporations.

Reiner Fuellmich: But it seems like people are waking up to this. You’re not the only one who understands this right? Do the people understand this as well?

Christina: There is only 30% in the capital R with a vaccine and a very little percentage inside the country. It makes him hope that there are more awakened people like he believes that there are.

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s good to hear because I think there are many more people than we think that do not believe in this hoax anymore. I think most of them you can’t recognise because, I don’t know, do you have mask mandates in Uruguay? A ha..

Christina: Yeah, it is obligatory of course in the closed spaces 100 percent and outside also but more from the media that makes everybody afraid and from these doctors that they say that the masks are good. This obligatory in the court and everybody who goes inside the court, they declared it obligatory, to go to a court which to use it in the court all the time, the mask. This was for them a kind of attack because they didn’t have any more they found to go to the court because for them they felt attacked in the basic scene that it is to breathe free, and you understand. So the basic right to breathe free was cut when they said okay, you have to wear the mask in the court.

Reiner Fuellmich: Do they not accept medical exemptions?

Christina: No. I mean, I am one of the proof of that I had one and I nearly went to jail because of this. It doesn’t exist in this part of the world.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay, now we’re under a bit of a time pressure. And there’s two more guests who we have to talk to, our colleague, Natalia Ravanales from Chile and of course, Michael Swinwood. Is there anything that, in addition to what you told us, Gustavo, is there anything that we need to know about Uruguay?

Christina: He wants to close saying that this globalist dictatorship that tries to impose the Chinese communist model around the planet only can be stopped with the people on the streets fighting through.

Reiner Fuellmich: Well thank you very much Gustavo and don’t give up, but you don’t look like you’re going to give up. Thank you. Okay one more guest from South America that’s Natalia Ravales from Chile. Are you with us?

3:19:41 – 3:50:25 Chile Lawyer Natalia Ravanales

Christina: It is a great honour to have been invited to expose the situation of Chile.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, please. Thank you.

Christina: I am a lawyer in Chile and my special (inaudible) is the human rights law in Chile. In March 2020, the president of Chile declared the emergency sanitary state that till today is still there. This was declared when there was only one case of a positive test in Chile. Only one case. (Inaudible) was constantly renovated this state of emergency because of big danger. This year was extended with the help of the Congress for till June up to now, might be that they extend it longer. We are in Chile in a really sanitary dictatorship. In practical life, we are in a constitutional state, but in the real life we are in a dictatorial sanitary state. The people are in constantly locked down inside their houses for hours, days and months inside. It doesn’t matter if you’re healthy or sick, you have to be in lockdown. A violation of human rights, very bad violation of human rights. (Inaudible) has taken us a lot from the United from the ono. The ono is the one who determines all what is going on inside Chile (inaudible) as you can as you know, and she determines all what is going on in Chile as an experimental lab test (inaudible) like this. Very strong decay of what we have known once as a state of law.

Reiner Fuellmich: Oh my God. So they are too they’re trying to destroy the rule of law in order to destroy democracy and install a well, as you’re saying communist dictatorship, right?

Christina: The political crisis in Chile began in 2019 before the pandemic and I’m sorry to say we have the militaries in the street here with the (inaudible) already now. With the clear intention, she said, to convert Chile in a colony under globalist powers. They want a constitutional change.

Reiner Fuellmich: To what?

Christina: All this time that we were locked down without our basic rights they were making profound changes in the internal law and in the Constitution.

Reiner Fuellmich: Same happens here.

Christina: For example, they make legal the abortion in a young girls without cause, so the governments have a complete power over the children. They also want to approve the (inaudible) law, this is something that they are going to approve soon the (inaudible) law, and they want to put back, I would say the military power back, the (inaudible) back in power. This is the real reason why the country is in lockdown.

Reiner Fuellmich: The real reason is that they want to make this into a military dictatorship. They want to have complete power over the children, and they want to introduce euthanasia.

Christina: Yeah.

Vivienne: How does this euthanasia law what’s that gonna look like?

Christina: The government says that nowadays one of the fundamental law in the planet to have the right to apply the (inaudible). This is why they want to put it also in Chile. This is what they say, the government is saying that.

Vivienne: That doesn’t exist anywhere else. I mean, not to that –

Christina: It’s not a law yet but it is before getting law, you know, (inaudible) and it is in this before getting law, I don’t know the name –

Reiner Fuellmich: – it’s a draft bill and they’re try – really? Does the population know about this?

Christina: Very little people know it because the only thing that people hear or you read about here is only the plandemic and that’s it. And 24/7 we have only the numbers of how many people are “positive”, “sick” or whatever.

Reiner Fuellmich: So in other words, while people are being kept in panic and are looking towards Corona being so dangerous, behind their backs they’re changing the entire constitution and all the laws in that country?

Christina: Exactly.

Vivienne: And this law so that is going to mean that you can basically kill people who are disabled, sick, old or what are the criterias?

Christina: Yeah, and these except for the abortion law and there is another one that the parents are (inaudible) their power over the kids. This is also another thing that they are doing now in Chile. I didn’t know about this question. I mean, they want to put that the state the government, they want to put a new law that once that you are responsible for the kids are not the parents anymore, they the government will be responsible for the kids. For example, if a parent denies to give the vaccine to the kids, the government is going to be able to take these kids out of the house of their parents.

Vivienne: Here they. At least they’re moving also in this direction here that it’s becoming more and more obvious that they want to take about deciding what is good for the children. This is also they’re trying to put it also more and more into the hands of the government.

Reiner Fuellmich: What we’re seeing here is that from what we learned just from Gustavo is that in some parts of this world, Uruguay being one of such countries, they don’t even pretend that they have a factual basis what they’re doing. They’re just doing it. And in other countries like in this one in Chile, they’re going one step further and they’re already trying to take children child custody away from the parents to transfer it to the government. They’re about to introduce euthanasia. So I think it’s about time that the rest of the world wakes up to this because that is a worldwide agenda. And we all have to do something.

Christina: Chile is country in America that the shift of the agenda of the 2030 new reset they say like this Chile and the government of Chile is the one who rules in South America.

Reiner Fuellmich: Is there anything going on in the courts of law? Is there anything you can do in the courts or are the courts part of the government? Are they corrupt? Oh,

Christina: In Chile there are very little lawyers, I will say she’s the only one, this is my opinion, that is doing something against the plandemic. Considering the amount of violation of human rights that have been done on the face of the Coronavirus of the emergency of the Coronavirus. Two weeks ago she was already, I don’t know what is Habeas corpus I think it is, in 13 courts in Chile and all were rejected. Also, with (inaudible) a lawyer and two other more. She wants to explain more about what she did about the 13 lawsuits that she was putting in the 13 courts in Chile. A lot of investigation to the court. A lot of really good investigation to each court. It went even through the Supreme Court in Chile where she was speaking and written down all what was going on against the violation of human rights in the name of the sanitary emergency. They made a paper written down a very good statement and they were naming 2 million, 2 million people that they are in really bad health condition that they cannot be attended, and they were they were not being attended, and they were not given any kind of operation and they needed it. 220,000 serious operations were not done just to give priority to the Covid cases. Also, they sent this year now in March 220,000 people they were rejected to be attended in 11 regions or provinces in Chile. It orders that the people cannot be attended. The people that gave these orders are the same people that were putting the country in a sanitary emergency lockdown that the sanitary measures, these sanitary measures they are more damage than the plandemic.

Reiner Fuellmich: Of course.

Vivienne: How many dead Corona victims do you have?

Christina: 0,6% in the last year?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, but that’s nothing.

Vivienne: How many people in total?

Christina: 24,000 people in 22 million.

Reiner Fuellmich: And you don’t know if they are really COVID victims, or just positive tests?

Christina: Up to now there is no autopsy in Chile, so there is no way to know from what they were dying.

Reiner Fuellmich: Why do they come to the conclusion that they died of COVID? Is it because of positive testing? What is this? I mean this is totally completely stupid. What is going on? Are people believing this bullshit?

Christina: Yes. Yes.

Reiner Fuellmich: No evidence. No evidence.

Christina: The people are more in panic and more in fear and the more they obey.

Reiner Fuellmich: We have to break this chain; we have to break this. We do have to make sure that all of us are connected. Both the lawyers and everyone else. This cannot go on. This has gotten totally out of hand, and it’s so obvious from looking at Chile and Uruguay. It’s so obvious, because in Uruguay they don’t even care. They don’t even try to give the people an explanation for what’s going on. They just do it. And in Chile, we can see which way they’re headed. They’re taking away the children. They’re trying to introduce a law about euthanasia, the military is in the streets. So this is a complete hoax from what I’m gathering now. I mean, I had a suspicion that that’s the case. But if I look at those two countries, there’s no basis for any of this. I don’t understand why do people why don’t they go out and take to the streets, because they’re in panic? Is that all?

Christina: The people don’t go to the street because they are afraid.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, I understand.

Vivienne: And what is the military doing in the streets, so they’re checking that you don’t leave the house at night or just creating fear of, what is the deal?

Christina: We have the militaries in the street. This is (inaudible that she respects the law but they are not obeyed anymore to the oaths that they were taking. We have a curfew in Chile from nine o’clock in the evening all. So the military was (inaudible) in their mission in their power. And now they’re only charged to ask permission to the kids and to the women or to the people in the street if they have a permit to be able to go to the street and now in lockdown you can only go to the street twice a week for two hours to shop. And then if you go, this happened also to me, you have the military’s asking you for the stupid permit that says that you have to, what time did you get the permit to be able to go to buy bread in the shop?

Reiner Fuellmich: That is extremely scary, I must say. And I can only understand that the only reason why this is happening is because they’re believing these tales of horror. And in reality, there is no such thing. It’s just an illusion and people believe it.

Christina: She says she is really proud to be one of the two lawyers who is doing something in Chile to fight for this. She’s not afraid and she’s not going to be intimidated, even though they wanted to put her yesterday, I heard about this, penalty, because she was exposing all these cases in front of the 13 judges. Now she pays a penalty because of being one of the lawyers who speaks the truth in Chile. And because she’s a patriot she will not give up and she’s very proud that she is a fighter and that she will go through with these even if she has to go to international court. Because in Chile, she has now the feeling that she did all what she could here in this country, and it’s time for her to go into international court. Otherwise, we are going bad in this country.

Reiner Fuellmich: Well Natalia we’re very proud to have you in our session to be able to interview you in this session. And you must stay in touch with us and the rest of the colleagues who are in this session. There’s going to be more international colleagues in part two of this which will happen next Friday. So you must stay in touch. We have to be able to help each other, not just on the legal front, but also on all other fronts as well as far as information is concerned, for example. If you need any expert opinions, if you need any experts, feel free to ask because we’ll put you in touch with them.

Christina: She says she’s very thankful and she’s very proud to be a part of this conversation that she’s believes also in Divine Law and that she hopes that very soon this is going to be over and that we can go back to our divine essence, to be connected as human beings like we don’t need to go through all these kinds of things that they are so bad for all of us. And she’s really thankful that she has the opportunity to be here with all of you.

Reiner Fuellmich: We must stay connected and I believe she’s absolutely right. And Michael Swinwood who is waiting to talk to us, he’s in Peru right now and I think he agrees 100 percent. There’s the spiritual side in this and by way of connecting law and spirituality we will win this.

Christina: Thank you very much she says, and so be it.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes. Thank you very, very much. And please stay in touch.

Christina: Thank you very much it’s a great honour to be part of you. Thank you Reiner and Vivienne for giving me the opportunity to translate and hopefully it was okay.

Reiner Fuellmich: It was perfect, thank you so much. And have a great weekend despite all this bullshit.

Christina: Thank you. You too.

3:50:47- 4:26:06 Canadian Lawyer, Michael Swinwood

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah. Bye bye. Hey, Michael. Oh, man, I’m sorry to keep you waiting, but this is how, I mean, I never expected to hear stories like this. This is insanity.

Michael Swinwood: Yeah, it’s chilling. Get it? Chile?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah yeah, Man.

Michael Swinwood: Well, listen. The story is the same everywhere, but I mean it’s kind of interesting that Chile, and what she’s talking about, and what she said about all of the legislation and movement and military and all that stuff, it’s a template for what’s coming for the rest of us.

Reiner Fuellmich: Of course.

Michael Swinwood: And, you know, Chile was also one of the countries that a lot of Nazis made it out of Germany, and the kind of tyranny that’s existed in Chile for a long time, it is fresh ground for what they’re talking about. It’s really the best place for them to put in what they’re doing. Worldwide, I mean, we’re seeing all this. Dominic and I were talking last week about the rumour in the, hi Dominic, good to see a brother, the rumour in the province of Quebec, that they were contemplating legislation, taking the authority over children out of the hands of the parents. And then here we’re hearing legislation in Chile. So you know, what does that tell you? What does that tell you? What it tells you is that there’s an agenda, and that agenda is being you know, kind of rolled out no vaccine pun intended. So they’re rolling out these initiatives at various places. It’s like trying to play a bad symphony, you know, the chord section, okay you go ahead, now the bass you go ahead. I left Canada to pop in on a lawyer I hadn’t seen in almost five years. He’s practised law for 50. So you know he’s up there, but a brilliant man and a brilliant criminal law lawyer, one who mentored me at the beginning. And I have a lot of respect for and quite frankly, I love him as a human being. But I went to see him and first of all, they came to the first door. I was met with masks, people are going where’s your mask, where’s your mask? So I had to dig into my pocket and find a mask and then when I went to see him, we went into a room and he was just like this the whole time, your mask is under your nose. And he’s giving me all these admonitions. And I said to him, “Oh, I guess you don’t know. But I’m actually working against all these things that you’re talking about.” “Oh what’s wrong with you?” And, and I was shocked, I thought, Oh, he must have some semblance of knowing. Now this is an intelligent man. If I was in trouble, I’d call him right away. He said, “I’m listening to Dr Fauci and Sanjay Gupta on CNN, and I believe them.” And then I said to him, “Have you done any research yourself?” “No.” And he said, “I’ve got the first vaccine.” And I said, “Do you know what’s in that vaccine?” “No.” So consciousness, what I’m trying to get across here, here’s an intelligent human being criminal law lawyer, very very experienced, very sharp, very street smart, in complete fear, and not wanting to investigate, because those people are intelligent, and they’re telling the truth. So that consciousness is predominant, its in a lot of places, where people do not wish to make the investigation. So this is where the danger lies. The danger lies in those who don’t want to pay attention to what’s happening around them, see what’s happening around them, and do something about it. They’re quite content to listen to officialdom, lie to them, and then follow their instructions. That’s what the problem is 100 percent. I cried with that man, because I said to him, you know, I don’t have to convince you, but please please open your mind enough to investigate. But I knew as soon as I left that he wasn’t going to do anything. Because he was convinced that authority is correct, that what they’re telling him is true. And that people like me, need to give our heads a shake cos we don’t know what we’re talking about. So I think that’s exactly where the problem is. And you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. And the horse has to be thirsty. And that’s been my experience for all my life. If a person is not desirous of knowing something, they’re not gonna bother. For them, it’s meaningless. It doesn’t mean anything. So the consciousness of humanity is really what’s at play here. And how we’re able to influence or raise the consciousness of humanity is really the task. And we’re losing. We’re essentially losing, because the propaganda campaign has been perfect. So if you and I and Dominic control the press, well, they all they be hearing is that this is fake, this is a hoax, you know, pay attention to start studying, do some research. That’s what they would hear. And then maybe they would begin, but they’re not hearing that. What they’re hearing is the number of deaths today is 3450, 9000, new cases of Coronavirus. The hospitals are overwhelmed the ICU, they don’t know what to do, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. And they hear that, you heard one of them either from Uruguay or from Chile, I can’t remember which but saying all you hear is COVID COVID COVID COVID COVID.

Reiner Fuellmich: Michael, but why is it that some of do see through this, or at least try to see through this and others like this intelligent person, your friend, refuse to even I mean, as a lawyer, you should know that you have to get to the facts, you have to see the true facts. Even if I was a criminal defence attorney, I would always want to know what is really going on. But these people, and this guy is a criminal defence attorney as you said, I just don’t get it.

Michael Swinwood: Well, that’s my point to you. That’s my point to you. This is what you have to get. This is what you have to get. It’s like this if I go and stand in front of someone, and I say ABC, but their consciousness can’t accommodate ABC. So the fact that I said ABC, and they can go look it up in the alphabet and say, Oh, yeah, they’re the first three letters of the alphabet, oh, I didn’t know. No, he can’t hear ABC. So the consciousness is stuck in a particular place. The reason it’s stuck is because of brainwashing. So that the brainwashing has been going on for a long time, to the point where average Joe listens to authority. In Canada in particular is, you know, we’re famous for saying I’m sorry, rather than saying I have rights. The concept that authority is going to be challenged, falls to a rare few dominant – you, I – we’re the minority, we are the minority. And we’re looked at askance, like people look at us and go, what are those guys talking about? Right? So that’s the frustrating part. Because I know that if they would just listen, we could show them, but they can’t accommodate it. They just can’t accommodate it.

Reiner Fuellmich: So that means that we’re gonna have to fight the fight without them, right.

Michael Swinwood: Well, of course we have to fight the fight without them. But here’s the thing. None of us here are in control of the agenda that’s being put on humanity. And what we want to do is we want to affect that agenda that’s being put on humanity. And we’re handicapped, because they have all the leavers. They have all the leavers. And they’re so well organised. And they’ve infiltrated everywhere. And in that infiltration, they’re pulling the levers. Okay, I’m here in South America. You’ve heard from two people from South America that the situation in South America is that it was dominated by the Spanish until a bolivar came along and liberated them (inaudible) Simone bolivar. But who really embedded in here, the Jesuits? There’s a little town 20 minutes away from me, every second door, every second doorway, the arch is a Jesuit symbol. And these houses go back to the 1800s. Every second doorway is a Jesuit symbol. So literally, this was infiltrated, complete infiltration in South America, and then all the way up. United States, Canada.

Michael Swinwood: Now Canada’s got to be one of the worst countries in the world for lockdown right now. I mean, it’s just terrible. Ontario has border crossing police now saying you can’t come in from Quebec or you can’t go in to Quebec, it’s just ridiculous. Getting on a plane, I have a Canada Border Guard at the doorway of the plane asking me what’s my purpose for travel? Right, and I’m looking I was in Montreal at the airport, right? Oh, the other thing, you go through security now, before you place your stuff through the X ray stuff, you get photographed. You get photographed leaving the country. So I looked at it and I went, Okay, I’m not kicking up a fuss cos I won’t make the plane, but they’re asking me to be photographed. And you have to, if you want to go through security, so every person leaving Canada, at any airport, especially Montreal, you’re being photographed as you leave. There you go. So then they’re gonna line up all those photographs and see oh but that person and that person and that person, so the idea that you’re in a free and democratic society is out the window, the idea that we’re operating under the rule of law, it’s not so. We’re operating under the rule of COVID. And the rule of COVID is there’s a pandemic and you should shut up. That’s it. That’s it. That’s basically it. The Chief Justice of Ontario said we will not return to normal until everyone is vaccinated.

Vivienne: Same thing they said the exact same thing here. It’s like even the wording is completely identical it’s very, very strange.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah it’s verbatim..

Michael Swinwood: And the reason the wording is identical because it’s the same consciousness that we’re up against. Right, that’s back again to the idea that yes, what we’re doing legally, we hope to impact and affect, and we hope to bring about a stoppage. The more and more I see, the more and more I’m convinced that this is going to be a difficult job, a real difficult job, because it’s almost as if the person I have to go in front of is like the man who practiced 50 years criminal law. And there’s nothing I can say, I can’t say anything to him that makes him doubtful, that even puts a doubt into his mind that there’s a problem, you see what I’m saying. He doesn’t even doubt the people who are telling him that this is the way it is. Now, if I then went on and explained to him that the Pope and the Queen and the Order of the Garter and the judge well right away, I’d lose him. I mean he’d be going oh that, you know, I’m crazy it would be that at that point. And that’s how the judges treated my statement of claim, in essence. In essence, they look at it and go oh, my goodness, right. They don’t know anything about it, but they don’t care to know. Because from their perspective, it’s all the way it is, and you’re not part of the programme.

Reiner Fuellmich: Well Michael, but we still have to keep going both in the courts of law and on the spiritual side, as we just heard from our colleague from Chile. And we have to keep telling people what we know, in order to get things out. I mean, there’s no other way, except for these three approaches.

Vivienne: But I have the feeling let me just share one thought, because I think it’s also a very individual situation in the countries although a lot of the elements seem very, you know, similar, but what we can see, for instance, in Latin America, they don’t even care to disguise like, whatever the thing is. But here, you know, maybe it’s because we have a much more, I don’t know, sort of at least we’ve had the feeling that we are living in a democracy for a much longer time, you know. I think it’s for us, you have to, you know, be a little bit more convincing with what you do. And like now here for instance, a lot of people are feeling the pain of, like, you know, that they see their children, you know, basically attacked with having to do all the testing in the schools. And that’s getting a lot of people on edge. And so I think it’s, you know, this is also and a lot of people are basically waking up, like seeing this. I think maybe like Chile is already over the edge, because maybe they also been the, you know, have been much more used to like living in a –

Reiner Fuellmich: – they’ve been living in it far too long –

Vivienne: – what like living in a dictatorship for a very long time. Same for I mean, basically, everywhere in Latin America, like look at Argentina, Chile, and all that. So but I think it’s maybe a little bit of a different mindset still for quite a few people here, you know, and also for the people who do, you know, live in the eastern part of Germany, because they’ve come out of that situation, but then been lured into this well idea of democracy, whatever. But I think we still have a much stronger feeling of that this is something we own that we own this democracy, you know, we are entitled to it. And we want it back, you know, at least that would be a thing.

Reiner Fuellmich: For those 20 percent of us, the rest of the population probably doesn’t even understand about democracy.

Vivienne: No but I think at least more and more people are getting a feeling that something is seriously wrong, you know, and they’re getting more activated. Maybe they don’t know which way to direct their energy, but they’re still getting to know more dynamic. That’s what we can see.

Reiner Fuellmich: You’re saying that Canadians, I used to think this is particularly true for Germans, but that Canadians are very obedient in a way, right.

Michael Swinwood: Yes yes.

Reiner Fuellmich: But there’s still people like you and Dominic. And there’s more.

Michael Swinwood: Sure there’s more? Let me say, I totally agree with what you have both said about the continuation and that Dominic and I are going to continue that’s for sure. We’re going to dig in and dig in and dig in. I mean, as it presently stands, I just filed my appeal book and memorandum of fact and in law yesterday in the court of appeal. So 30 days from now they have to respond. Canada and the province of Ontario has to respond to my class action filing in the court of appeal and, you know, we might get a hearing date quicker than not. We’re also working on the class action for children. We’re also representing frontline nurses, who’ve all been taken down and so we’re doing a class action for them, and I have a hearing on June 28th and 29th on behalf of Adamson’s BBQ and Adam Skelly, who engaged in civil disobedience in his restaurant in downtown Toronto and had 253 police officers on the raid. But anyway, I’m being heard on June 28, and 29th, we have six experts. We have a virologist; we’re attacking the PCR. We’re attacking all elements of the hoax. We have great, great experts. And we get to see Canada’s experts on May 13. They have to provide us with their reports. And then we get to cross examine the experts. So we’re going full tilt Boogie, we’re definitely going to keep it up, keep it up, keep it up. Here’s what I’m saying, though. Although it might be different in different countries, what you’re seeing is an agenda that’s the same.

Reiner Fuellmich: Absolutely.

Michael Swinwood: And you’re seeing where they think that they can get away with more stuff, and they do it. So like in Canada, you know, I say to you that the province of Ontario is complete Jesuit poll, and we’re under the Jesuit control. And people don’t know that. Now, if I told them they’d go, oh well there’s something wrong with you. What I’m talking about is I can see the diminution of the rule of law and the ignoring of the Charter of Rights is the way they’re going. They’re not going, oh, yes, we’ve got some problems here, the rule of law is under attack and rights are under attack. No, no, no, no, no, no, no of it.

Reiner Fuellmich: They want rid of it, yeah.

Michael Swinwood: So how many leavers are they pulling everywhere in order to bring that off, that becomes the question, how many leavers can you pull? I can’t put a Canada Border guard at the front of the plane when you enter the plane, they can. And this is where it is, they’ve thought about this oh take his picture when he’s leaving, so that we now have somebody that we can say, that was an unhealthy move on your part, that’s what it’s become. It’s become, that’s an unhealthy move on your part, we’re going to have to take you away. You see what I’m saying?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah yea yeah.

Michael Swinwood: Yeah, so by increments we’re implementing tyranny. That’s it, we’re implementing tyranny. So why is there a spiritual component to this, then what is the meaning what is the essence of the spiritual component? Well, the essence of the spiritual component is, number one, all of us are divine beings having a physical experience. That’s the first thing. People don’t know, people don’t understand that aspect of things because of dogma, that dogma has been put on people to take away the idea of their own divinity, and put it in the hands of someone else, between you and spirit. And therefore, that tyranny started with that idea of laying dogma on people and pulling them away from their own relationship to spirit. So what we have to come to grips with as human beings as individuals, is our own connection to spirit. Because everything that you see everywhere happens because of spirit. It’s the breath of the Divine, that allows everything to grow and breathe and be. And so within that, that’s a very powerful force, much more powerful than the tyrannical force of this insane consciousness that is imposed on humanity. It represents the dark force. And what we represent in the end is the light force. So therefore, we have an added reservoir, in addition to law. And what that added reservoir is, is our relationship to spirit that we can connect with every single day. And therefore, give yourself the ability to have magic, magic come into your life and you’ll be amazed at how things will change just by virtue of making that connection. Um, a couple of miracles. When you’re in the mountains, you have to be careful going around curves, especially when there’s 18 wheelers coming because the 18-wheeler will take up the whole the whole road. And when I arrived, I was driving on one of those mountainous roads, and as I came around a corner, honest there was an 18-wheeler, he took up the whole road and his speed and my speed were going to make me in a collision. And right there was a little dirt patch that you could pull off a car. And in an instant, I pulled it off, I just boom, I was out of the danger. And it’s like that, it’s like that angel’s sort of blowing their breath at the right time like, and that happens, I am a firm believer that if we think that way and act that way that it’s going to impact the agenda. Because there, I think you’ve put your finger on it before, they’re bound to make mistakes. They’re bound to make mistakes. And we have to be alert to the mistakes they make and go where that entry allows us. So I think the combination of law and real understanding of our connection to spirit and enforcing that on ourselves every day, and in other words, making a remembrance. You know, my teacher my spiritual teacher says, self-remembrance is the most important thing to self-realisation. And then you have to examine the question, what self? What is self? Who am I? And then when we get into that question, who am I? And if I can answer it by saying, Well, I’m a divine being having a physical experience, then I can up the vibration, I can up the consciousness, I can elevate. And that’s where this is that we need to elevate, elevate the consciousness of humanity, because it’s in a dire consequence, right now, it’s in a very, very dark place.

Reiner Fuellmich: What do you think, Dominic?

Dominic Desjarlais: Well, first of all, Michael, I just want to say hi to a fellow Canadian. It’s good to have two Canadians on this thing, so thank you very much. We had a chat less than a couple of weeks ago. So me and Michael discussed that, and I agree that there is a spiritual aspect to this. I’ve been saying on different occasions that people have to take their own power back that has to deal with spirituality. So I am totally in line with this. And some people talk about a third world war, I talk about spiritual war. So that’s exactly what Michael was saying.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah I think we’re all in agreement on this. I wouldn’t have said this little more than a year ago, but if you look at what’s happening, it’s global insanity and there’s no other way to make sense of this than on a different level, and what else can it be but spirituality and the law alone won’t suffice? Not this time.

Dominic Desjarlais: I agree that it’s a combination of both, you know, doing our job as lawyers, but also our job as lawyers has to be to educate people and raise people’s consciousness and awareness about this whole thing.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yep. Michael, are you aware of this? I don’t think it’s a decision, but maybe it is a decision in Peru of this court. I understand that there’s a group of judges even it’s not real plaintiffs, but judges who decided that they will prosecute, I think it’s a criminal case, prosecute those who are behind this, or is this a completely false story?

Michael Swinwood: Well, that’s what I’m trying to track down. I read the same story you’re speaking of. I remember reading it was a good three four months ago I read that story. Yeah. And so I’m trying to track it down because I’m highly doubtful. I’m highly doubtful. You know, but one one beautiful thing about Peru is that there is nothing that can’t be fixed. It was just nothing. There’s always a solution. They’re the most inventive creative people. It’s incredible. I love it because, you know, you’ll go to an official and they say, no, we can’t do this, and you’ll turn to the Peruvian and the Peruvian will say, oh, yeah, there’s a way and they get it done. But I’m tracking it down through lawyers and Lima. You have to also appreciate that Lima is the capital and Lima sits right at sea level. Where I am is in the Sacred Valley which is up outside of Cusco and we’re at 10,000 feet here. It’s like being in two different worlds. To be in Lima and where all the politicians are and where all the activity is and all the stuffs going on, there’s a certain feeling. Then you come here and you’re going there’s no problem in the world. There’s none because there’s no television to watch, there’s no radio to listen to. So the people here are just, it’s just like it was 15 years ago, they’re wearing a mask that’s it as far as they’re concerned, and they’ll take it off whenever they want. So the difference where there’s no propaganda being thrown at you all the time is incredible. It’s just incredible. And the consciousness of the people is not so adversely affected. And this is the other thing too, when people get up in the morning until they go to bed at night, they’re constantly being told, be in fear. That’s what they’re being told, be in fear.

Reiner Fuellmich: That’s Michael why one of the psychologists a professor of psychology who we interviewed, and we had one session that dealt with how can we overcome this fear? I mean, not me and not Vivienne, and the others, because we know what’s going on, but how can the people overcome this fear and one of the most important pieces of advice he gave is just cut yourself off from this constant onslaught of propaganda. Just don’t listen to the radio, just don’t watch TV anymore. I mean, I haven’t been watching any television and I haven’t been listening to the radio for at least months now. And it had a profound effect. Because I don’t care about what they’re saying and what’s going on because I know there’s just lies and there’s nothing really going on. But all these people who are constantly under this onslaught of fake and panic propaganda, I understand I can sympathise with your friend in Ontario, but I still don’t understand how someone who is trained to look at the real facts can disregard this. Incredible.

Michael Swinwood: It’s laziness thats all, intellectual laziness. But the other aspect of this was there an adverse ruling at the International Human Rights Tribunal in relation to children?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, there is. This is a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month or two ago. And they ruled. I think this is a case dealing with either one of the former East Bloc countries, Eastern Europe, and I think, Czechoslovakia yeah. And a couple parents of a child or two children, they appealed to the human European human rights court asking them to rule that vaccinations cannot be mandatory. It didn’t deal with COVID vaccinations, I think it dealt with –

Vivienne:– measles –

Reiner Fuellmich: – yeah, measles or something. And that’s when the court ruled, no, it’s okay it’s within the regulatory system and it’s okay, in certain instances, to have mandatory vaccinations. Now, as I said, it didn’t exactly indirectly apply to this. But of course, it opens the door, it opens the door.

Michael Swinwood: Well, so that leads me to the second thing is, do you think that we can organise enough lawyers to take an approach together to either the International Human Rights Tribunal or some other international forum?

Reiner Fuellmich: Yes, I do. In fact, Michael, when we started today’s session of hours and hours ago, we started with the German portion. And there is a former judge who is advising us and who has been advising us for a while, he’s a retired judge. He and his wife are child activists, very smart man, very experienced. And we all of us are beginning to realise that this is about the children. And it is about institutionalised child abuse, probably much worse, because we’re headed in a direction that is disastrous. And he wanted to be in touch with all of us. So I do think, Michael, that with us as lawyers, Dominic and you and many of the others out there, Ana Garner is one of them who I spoke to, or we both spoke with today. This group of lawyers plus this group of experts that we have, yes, we are a very powerful group of people and we can even make it to the international human rights court, or the International Criminal Court.

Michael Swinwood: Yeah, I’d really like to see a southern organising meeting with the lawyers who are interested so we can map out a strategy.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, let’s do that. We have the right people. We do have them.

Michael Swinwood: So it’s in your hands to organise it.

Reiner Fuellmich: Yeah, we’ll do that. We’ll do that as the Corona committee because, for some reason, I don’t know why this is, but apparently, we’re the ones who, out of intuition, maybe, we started this whole Corona committee thing trying to, because all of us have questions. And we believe that there’s many more people out there who must have the same questions. Well, I guess there’s not many more people out there, but quite a few more people out there. And now we have all this evidence. And now we’re in touch we’re all connected, and we have this evidence to share, that’s what this is all about. And that’s why I think with the combination of our legal efforts, Dominic’s, yours, Ana’s ours, and spirituality, we will not fail.

Michael Swinwood: Right on. Right on. Okay. I’m happy to hear that.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay. Well, guys, it’s been a pleasure and an honour as always, the weekend is near. Um, so I just want to let you go. I know it’s only 2:30 in the afternoon, right.

Dominic Desjarlais: 3:30 for me.

Reiner Fuellmich: It’s 2:30 for Michael, I think.

Michael Swinwood: Yeah.

Reiner Fuellmich: But it’s I’m really glad that we’re a team.

Michael Swinwood: Yeah, me too. Okay.

Dominic Desjarlais: Thank you very much Reiner. Thank you, Michael.

Michael Swinwood: Yes, and Reiner one last thing, someone has made an invitation asking if you and I could be interviewed at the same time and that they would arrange it. And I said I would speak to you about that. Would you be willing to be interviewed with you and I on?

Reiner Fuellmich: Any time, Michael.

Michael Swinwood: Okay, perfect. I’ll get the logistics and I’ll get them to you.

Reiner Fuellmich: Okay.

Michael Swinwood: Thank you very much.

Reiner Fuellmich: Thank you very much.

Michael Swinwood: Bye Vivienne.